Punishing Kiss

This kind of cabaret-muzak tripe owes 99% of its sales to business entities. The "corporate communications" departments at outfits like the Marriott Group approve it as album of the month, and this moves a few hundred thousand units. It spends its 30 days of patronage on repeat in hotel lobbies and art gallery gift shops, and afterwards it ends up in op-shops. The corporate world then forgets about Ute Lemper because Norah Jones has a new album out, it's lounge jazz covers of Soundgarden songs and for some reason, hotel chain executives think that is a good idea. Meanwhile, the wider public remains mostly unaware of this album's existence. Maybe Ute will have another album in a few years that's picked up in the same fashion, but for the moment she goes back to whatever artsy-fartsy theatrical bubble she came from. Soon enough the op-shops, inundated with copies of an album no one's ever heard of - let alone care enough about to pay $2 for - give up on trying to sell copies of it as individual units, and include them in bulk lots that are offloaded to Chinese ebay merchants. The CDs remain in warehouses just outside Shenzhen, the ebay listings untouched. This repeats as bulk lots are shifted from reseller to reseller. But the CDs never sell, and after a while they end up in landfill. The booklets disintegrate and the plastic begins to slowly decompose. Climate change eradicates humanity long before the CD cases are broken down into their base elements. Eventually, as the universe expands beyond its ability to maintain thermodynamic energy, everything comes to a slow, frozen, irreversible halt. 2/5.

You know when you were a kid, and your parents dragged you along to some event? And you sat there, quietly and politely, all the while withering away inside and wishing it was over so you could do literally anything else? I have never heard that feeling captured so impeccably into music as I did here.

I listened to this while playing the Lord of The Rings game on my psp and eating mint aero so I think maybe it was situation that I'm giving a 4.

Awful in ways difficult to describe. A performance hammier than a telenovela set on a pig farm, wrapped in spun-sugar arrangements so saccharine they made my teeth melt. This has been, easily, my least favourite offering on this app so far. Punishing Kiss is ridiculous, but not in any kind of fun way - it feels like a horribly calculated misstep. I imagine this is in 1001 albums one must listen to, so that every now and again were are consoled that the sweet embrace of the tomb is not so far away.

Sounds like the soundtrack to a musical I don't want to see.

Fuck off

After learning The Divine Comedy produced this, my thought was “of course.” I never heard of The Divine Comedy before this list/site, but they’re headlining my shitlist.

The reason why Björk’s music is so interesting is her voice. It is more often than not the most engaging part of one of her songs. The same can be said for this album. I had never heard of her up until today, but Ute’s voice instantly stood out as one of the most commanding and enrapturing I’ve ever heard. This album is cool. Like physically cold. It feels chilling and heartless. But also sleek. Like a thrilling espionage movie. Some songs like Streets of Berlin or the closer contain this inhuman machine-like sound quality. But this is still very rooted in experimental baroque and classical music. The best songs are the ones written by Neil Hannon. But really, the amount of huge talents that are credited here is remarkable. The only songs I didn’t like were the ones done by Tom Waits. Not because I don’t like his music or anything, I just found those to be the least interesting. Rating: 9/10

This album is fucking hilarious. Ute Lempter is the female German version of John Mulaney. I feel like this is a in a 57 minute SNL skit of cabaret absurdity. For example... "your head is a big red balloon" "my pretty breasts are piled high with stones ... and tiny little fishes enter me" "if sex were an Olympic sport, we would've won the gold..." and from the whorehouse song... "I got the brain, and she supplied the breast ... " It's all so terrible. If this is supposed to be serious, then it's really sad and ... terrible. But if this is a huge joke (which it seems to be), then it's great. It did get tiresome after the first 30+ mins., but this album was a welcome bit of levity on 1001.

this is the sort of album that makes you feel small until you realise it's Vegas cabaret schmaltz, not decadent chaise-longue sophistication

If James Bond theme music was just about real life shit. This would be the theme music and I dig it

I fully believe the lyrics were written by a teenager making their first attempt at erotic fan-fiction and you cannot convince me otherwise.

man idk anymore

I understand why this album is divisive here. It’s a shamelessly theatrical chamber/avant-pop record that pulls from French chanson, cabaret, and classical. The songwriting bona fides are quite impressive and I get a distinct melancholy feel to this album. The lyrics are often dark and portray humanity at its most raw. I’m reminded of Lou Reed’s Berlin both lyrically and musically. Though it is a touch dated and perhaps a song or two too long, it was still a fascinating album.

This was an interesting album. A bit slow for my taste but I enjoyed it nonetheless. A cool thing about this is how you can clearly hear the influences of the "guest" artists for each song

Ute is new to me. Such a powerful voice, and I loved the orchestration. They kind of feel like Bond tunes, with how dark and grand many of them are. Pleased to hear a couple Tom Waits tunes on the album.

Dramatic! Some really excellent performances.

Music beds were awesome. Cool, jazzy, emotional, experimental. Vocals and lyrics were over dramatic. This seems like what theater kids listen to.

Enjoyed it 👍

Haunting and visceral

I feel like this should be the soundtrack for Cats

I feel like I *should* like this... I like Tom Waits, Nick Cave, and Elvis Costello quite a bit, I like this style of cinematic 60s belter... it just doesn't connect for me. Maybe it's the darker modern production and the heavy leaning on strings over brass in the arrangements... this needs some big ol' Henry Mancini swells or something. This style of music is self-aware enough to wink at the audience but it's being blended with songwriting so self-serious that it keeps its winking behind closed doors. However, I could see this album being a grower worth revisiting.

Day 96 and the first album I had to stop listening to. It's like a soundtrack to a musical that I don't know if it exists and, if it does, never want to see. Something to play at a social event if you want people to leave.

A Punishing Listen

I wish zero stars existed as an option here, because this was by far one of the worst things I've ever heard. I wish I could go back to the person I was 58 minutes ago. I'd now like to sit down for a couple hours with someone who loves this album and try to work out which one of us is completely insane.

I would describe the process of listening to this album as "tortuous". Absolutely. Fucking. Miserable.

Epic!

It's crazy to think this is how I find out about this album, not only did I never knew of this but it contains so many great and interesting songwriters, many of whom are my absolute faves. Initially I thought this was a covers album but... no? Like how the hell do you get two of the Divine Comedy guys, Elvis Costello, Nick Cave, Tom Waits, and fucking Scott Walker in the same albums to write you songs?? They all come together in their own songs to write and work on different songs of course but I like that Ute's voice/style (or what I asume is her own direction) is not lost, this sort of modern take on grand cabaret theatrical stuff and baroque pop with different influences depending on the featured writer. It's that kind of balance of a seasoned performer who has a vision and a strong voice and incredible writers that nets an album this interesting and exciting to me, which is surprising to me because I'm not somebody who likes, let alone is even interested in cabaret theatrics most of the time they fall flat by trying too hard whereas this feels like it avoids all the worst tropes of the more theatrical genres and remains all the aspects that are fuller with attitude and gusto which I think MANY cabaret/theatrical styled albums sorely miss for me. I appreciate the range in sound and writing, but especially the final song Scope J. The closest this book has ever gotten to adding a late era Scott Walker song and immedeately its obvious how his style at the time took over the sounds, gone is the theatrics and in are the piercing drones and dissonances that transform Ute's vocals into a banshee. I really cannot get enough of it, I possibly would go as far as to give it a 5/5 on here and 9/10 on rym on future listens because I had a great time and I love whenever someone makes music I don't think works for me work for me. Awesome surprise

Bond theme vibes, just luxourious

Why is this record so hated on? It's a little bit dated in its production, but the performance and arrangements are glorious!

Cinematic, dark, captivating.

Heel wat James Bond gehalte. Weer een leuk album ontdekt

This album is now on my list :)

Unique!

Very theatrical. Her voice is really great and the guests compliment it well.

Okay, wasn’t expecting this! Getting the likes of Tom Waits, Nick Cave, and Scott Walker together to help you out? Yes please! (You could keep Elvis Costello, though) Some great songwriting, obviously, and she sounds lovely. B-

I know by now that this style of crooning baroque pop inspired by the likes of Scott Walker is right up my alley, even arguably a guilt pleasure, thanks to Neil Hannon of the Divine Comedy. Hell, right before I generated this album I was checking out an album by them that I had never listened to before, so it is almost like destiny, even to the point where you can tell that a lot of the songwriting was done by Hannon himself, as if Ute Lemper's voice was used as a vessel for him and many other artists to try out cabaret, or bring themselves into a different perspective. I actually surprisingly quite enjoyed Costello's additions, as the pop-ier sound was a nice change of pace, and I wish they were a bit more spread out, because I was seeking shelter by the end from the musical theater displayed in front of me by the end of the album. I mean, Tom Waits also had some great additions, and whenever Neil was actually singing on one of his songs it was a blast, even if he felt like he was making fun of his own singing voice at times, but forty minutes in the album seemed ready to wrap up. Luckily, Scott Walker himself comes out of nowhere to deliver one of the darkest sounding songs I've heard from this subsection of music. It's repetitive, long, and droning, but God does it send shivers down my spin and feel like it is the perfect stop to the album. The first half of the album is truly amazing, though, with some pieces from everyone that are truly great, especially the Nick Cave tune that is undoubtedly, well, Nick Cave, but in the best of ways. Sure, the album can be seen as not really Lemper's, and that can cause it to feel like a fish out of water situation where I can't imagine too many who listen to this get what they want, but I feel this fits me just right, and is just as much of a force of nature as any of the albums of those who appear here alongside Lemper, and that makes me glad I got to check it out.

I’m so surprised by this. I expected to hate it, but I really enjoyed it. A lot of the reviews are right, that it sounds like James Bond music, or the soundtrack to a musical, but this is a musical I’d like to see. I don’t know what it was about this album, but I’m into it. 8/10 Top 3: 1. Die Dreigroschenoper: Tango Ballad 2. Little Water Song 3. Streets of Berlin

Really beautiful.

I actually really liked this

This is one of the lowest rated albums on the generator? It's pretty good, at least for me. The last song kind of dragged, and it's what I was worried the whole album was going to sound like before I started it, but everything else was fun. It's interesting to see who worked on which songs. My favourite songs were Split and Punishing Kiss.

Hadn't heard of Ute Lemper before, but thoroughly enjoyed this. Sultry, dark, caberet. I appreciate that this list has albums like this on it. Suffers a little from early 00s super shiny production. Favorite tracks: "The Case Continues", "Streets of Berlin", "Tango Ballad"

Je ne comprends pas les mauvaises notes, en tout cas c'est tout droit dans mon allée.

WTF is this? Lush, orchestral pop songs about sexual violence? It's certainly a unique concept and the performances are solid. It's exactly what I expect to be included in a list of 1001 Albums. There are a variety of songwriters on the album and Ute's skill as an actress is put to good use. She fits her voice to styles of Elvis Costello, Tom Waits, and others. If this album was meant to have a single, "Split" might be it. Ute's voice sounds great and it's upbeat.

Wonderfully bonkers

Feels like a passionate musical

A genuine discovery through this project, really liked it.

This is stunning...why am I late to this. 👏👏👏👏

Surprised myself by how much I enjoyed this

interesting, more like a musical

Felt like a musical. The features are very noteworthy. Not the biggest fan of the vocals, but I loved the rest

The lyrics on the first song were so literal... Then I saw Nick Cave co-write and that made complete sense. I feel like this album would be a first draft pick in the middle of a manic episode.

an hidden gem

>Ute Lemper album >Looks inside >Nick Cave >Robert, you’ve done it again 3/5

This album doesn't live up to its billing. If you listened to it cold, you would never guess that the singer is the former star of a major production of Cabaret (playing Sally Bowles!). My friend compared it to a Moira Rose concept album, which is hilarious, if a bit unkind. Not totally inaccurate, though. There were a couple of tracks I really liked, but most were bland and uninspiring. Best track: You Were Meant for Me

What a mixed bag. I wasn't sure what to expect going in but I saw names like Tom Waits and Nick Cave so I was hopeful. I think this music works better in small doses. I could see myself listening to more of her work and some of the songs on this album again. Ute has a nice voice and the music is generally good but sometimes the songs drag a bit. At about an hour I was ready for it to be over even if it was a mostly pleasant experience.

Bit dramatic

Respectable, but not my style

This album is like listening to the soundtrack of a musical if all the songs were the ones that no one cared about

It's like a collection of my super villains torturing me for 50 minutes straight.

This feels very avant garde and also like the soundtrack to an overly dramatic musical. Not that either is necessarily a bad thing. But this was pretty tough to listen to, and I will definitely never make the choice to listen again.

Punishing Kiss I don’t know Ute Lemper at all and I resisted looking this up until I’d given this a listen. I get what she is going for - that musical, theatrical, 60s cinematic, cabaret, Weimar Republic, interwar, slightly seedy, decadent, melodramatic, orchestral, torch song vibe. The problem is it sounds very dated to the late 90s/early 2000s, and consequently it lacks any sort of atmosphere or any evocation of anything it's aiming for. Rather than sophisticated decadence it sounds more like soulless ham fisted schmaltz. I also really don’t like her voice or her vocal mannerisms. I get that the songs require that theatrical vocal style and those talked asides, and while she has a strong voice it has a quite unpleasant nasal brutality to it. Alongside all that, I found the songs pretty uninspiring thematically, lyrically and melodically, even if they were written by people I like, like Nick Cave and Tom Waits. It was a bit of struggle to make it through the third listen, but You Were Meant For Me was the only one that really stood out, the only song where the sound, arrangement and vocal all coalesced to conjure up a dramatic and nicely overwrought whole. I do actually like Neil Hannon and the Divine Comedy, but his records, while obviously influenced by this type of music, have some wit and charm with a much more considered sense to them. Like I say I get what they were going for, and if you are into the musical theatre vibes of the German Elaine Paige singing Cabaret and Kurt Weill then I guess it’s a good listen, but I found it a bit of an uninspiring irritation. Reluctant to go 1, even if I’m tempted, so I’ll stick with a 2. 👊💋 Playlist submission: You Were Meant For Me

WHY DOES THIS GUY LIKE THE DIVINE COMEDY SO MUCH

Thoroughly did not enjoy it

Brand new to me. First 2 songs YES! 3rd song not so much. As it goes along I still prefer the opening songs . Reminds me of Holly Cole at times. All in all there are some enjoyable moments, particularly The Case Continues and Split but in the end I'm left wondering as I have from time to time with this list; why this artist? why this album? 2.5 🌟

Ute Lemberg has a fantastic voice and the collaboration with The Divine Comedy is an interesting one but the album doesn’t have enough of a spark to sustain your interest.

What a bonkers album. Didn't sound particularly good, not sure if it gains or loses points for the song about the whorehouse. Either way a 4/10

There’s been a lot of garbage on this list. But this is the worst cabaret cruise ship shit I’ve heard in a long long time. Embarrassing that it would be on this list.

Oh wow. Nick Cave, Elvis Costello, Tom Waits, and the Divine Comedy? I just know that Robert Dimery came in his pants after reading that "songs by" blurb on this album cover. Here I was thinking that I would never have to hear Neil Hannon's voice ever again. Silly me! I'm fucking dumb. I should've known that Robert Dimery wouldn't be able to keep his hands off of all those men! But hey, this album isn't all men! I mean, you've get the head of this whole album herself, Ute Lemper, to give this album some woman points. So with all of these sources of talent (and also Neil Hannon), how did this album turn out? I don't like it. Why is that? Let me tell you! I'll start with the one thing that I actually can kind of praise to an extent. That's right. There's only one thing. The instrumentation is alright some of the time. It has this cabaret vibe that I haven't heard in many other albums on the list yet. It still sucks sometimes though. The last song wasn't very pleasant on the ears. Alright everybody! Time for complaining! I'm not a fan of Ute Lemper's singing. It's not my thing. It's like she read somewhere that people like Björk for her unique singing and tried her best to do that only for it to just be kind of annoying. I also think the times where Neil Hannon sings here are kind of annoying as well. At least he's only on a few songs. The album's too long. It just is. I don't feel like going into that because I have to save my bitching space in my head for the thing that I hate most from this album. The songwriting fucking sucks! You'd think with people like Tom Waits and Nick Cave involved that this album would be thought-provoking in some ways, right? Well, too bad. The only thought these songs provoke is "Why am I not listening to better music right now?" The sex lines are just as gross as the ones on the Divine Comedy albums. Why are there multiple songs that say breast or breasts? And of FUCKING course, there's a song that mentions a horse. Although, to be fair to that one, Neil Hannon didn't actually write that song, so I can't make fun of him for showing off his horse fetish on this album specifically. Just look to my Divine Comedy reviews for that one. Welp. Guys, gals, non-binary pals. We had a good run. I haven't felt this way since Snivilisation back in November, but I'm upset that I had to listen to this album. The sheer fact that the people behind this list had the balls to include an album like this just because of it having collaborators that already show up way too much on this list just pisses me off. You know what that means? For the first time in 2025, I'm giving this album a solid 1/5.

Well... this certainly was punishing. What are we even doing here and what in reality does this deserve top 1000? Like being stuck in a *bad* off broadway show. It's also not even really singing; it's that weird speak-singing thing people sometimes do. 3/10.

I checked how much listening time I had remaining on this album multiple times. It was always another fucking hour. This is so so SOOOO bad

This album was weird, and not in a good way. I couldn't wait for it to be over lol.

ASS

1. uuater - 1.5 2. caze - 0 3. fight - 0 4. die - 1 5. keep - 1 6. berlin - 1.5 7. auuay - 1.5 8. zplit - 1 9. kizz - 0 10. purple - 1 11. me - 1 12. zcope - 0

Interminable over-orchestrated plodding pompous schmaltz. Theatre kids were a mistake.

About halfway through the first song, I thought to myself this album might be a hard one to get through, and I was more right than I could have known. This is so, so bad and weird. It’s such an extraordinary kind of terrible that at some moments it loops all the way around to kind of being hilarious. But mostly, it’s just god awful schmaltzy cabaret singing set to shitty music with bizarre nonsense lyrics. As a reward for making it almost all the way through the album, you’re rewarded with the last track, a nearly-11 minute masterpiece on composing the most unlistenable garbage of all time. Part of me thinks that surely, this is some kind intentionally terrible performance art - if that is the case, I’d have to rate it pretty highly for nailing what it set out to do. But with no evidence to confirm this idea I have to take this album at face value. Most of the albums from this project that I’ve given one or a generous two ⭐️, I at least vaguely understand why someone else would like it, but not this one. Not only is this album not for me, I’m pretty sure it’s not fit for human consumption. I almost respect how completely and entirely hateable this album is, but mostly I just completely and entirely hate it. 1/10

I think pacing this album over two days was the worst thing I could do honestly

Holy shit, it's the holy grail of bad albums. This one's on the bad albums list on this site, and I was curious why. I started listening, realized it was in that same category of weirdo cabaret type music that I can't stand. My first thought was that she was like a female Tom Waits (derogatory). Towards the middle of the album, I looked at the cover: SONGS BY the following artists, a rogues gallery of some of my most despised artists that I've had to listen to on this list [I'm leaving out Philip Glass and Kurt Weill since I don't know them]: - Nick Cave (recently wrote about how I'm over him, pretentious prick) - Elvis Costello (had a couple decent albums, but wafty fart music, also he ruined that dope elephant cover by saying the N word on a song, cringe lord) - The Divine Comedy (can barely believe this one but he's all over this album, easily the worst artist I've learned about through this process, two albums with no redeeming qualities, again - pretentious prick music) - Tom Waits (the godfather of this goofy cabaret stuff, he's got a cool voice but it's not enough to make me sit through the spectacle, couple decent albums though) - Scott Walker (the first artist on this list to get a true 1 star review from me, he redeeemed himself elsewhere but good lord that album sucked) So I guess this album is like the Avengers but for hoity-toity musicians that I can't stand. Seriously, this list of artists is collectively responsible for EIGHT of my (only) 27 albums to get a 1 star review. Check my summary page, their names are almost all in my "Worst Artists" list. I'm honestly impressed. If only they squeezed in a Dagmar Krause feature. I'm keeping two tracks for posterity, but this is going in the dumpster where it belongs. Punishing piss. Favorite tracks: Passionate Fight, Scoop J (actually a cool song). Album art: White woman in black trenchcoat, standing by an industrial silo or tank of some kind. Is this the terrible music factory? That looks like their employee list there. 1/5

I don't understand what's going on, nor do I want to!

Dramatic and strange, but not in the way that I actually like. Many of these tracks would fit in a bad Phantom-inspired musical. I feel vaguely guilty for subjecting the cat to this album.

I would only listen to this if someone I hated was in the same room as me and I wanted them to be miserable.

Proof that not every stage star should record an album. A voice that gyrates between annoying and awful with all of the appeal of fingernails scraping a chalkboard. This has a William Shatner meets William Hung element to it.

Inorganic and stiff, nice execution but with as much soul as elevator or mezzanine music. Was going to give it a 2 for the execution but meh

Ute Lemper is best known for her interpretations of Kurt Weill, so covering artists influenced by Kurt Weill might turn out to be either inspired or reductive. Looking at the track list, I was like "Oh, yeah, Elvis Costello's later work is influenced by Kurt Weill," which had never occurred to me before. I'll be interested to see if that's true about Philip Glass. Of course, everyone knows that's true of Tom Waits and Nick Cave. But who are Noel Scott Engel and Neil Hannon, both of whom have the lion's share of composing credits? Oh, shit--Noel Scott Engel is Scott Walker, who Americanized the songs of Jacques Brel and who never met a 72 piece orchestra he didn't want to masturbate to. Neil Hannon is the founder of the contemporary group The Divine Comedy, a throwback to the days when melody was paramount and kitchen sink arrangements were the norm. Worse, the members of The Divine Comedy are the backing musicians! I dislike The Divine Comedy and both of the latter composers, so now I'm more than a little apprehensive about Punishing Kiss. Here goes. Predictably, it all falls flat, but it's difficult to accurately apportion blame. Of course, no song would have had a prayer of withstanding the overwrought orchestrations and performances of The Divine Comedy, but the effect is to make all the songs seem slight and jejune, even the Kurt Weill piece, which can't possibly be true. Ute Lemper strikes me here as melodramatic in her readings instead of deadpan, which is more appropriate for a Weill-influenced set, but she really had no choice given the accompaniment. At least she's better than Neil Hannon, who is pure ham in his duets with Lemper. Pretty fucking awful.

Started off thinking it could be interesting and quirky but the singing quickly got annoying

Gorgeous music and vocal interpretation. I feel like I went wrong somewhere in life for not having known Lemper up until now.

Alluring and easy, but exciting. Really loved it!

Going into this, I already know that I like The Divine Comedy, so hoping for good things. Right, as stated above, I already like The Divine Comedy, and I'm a huge fan of Björk, Tori Amos, and Kate Bush. So this is exactly the kind of thing that I'm into. I can get why it isn't for everyone, but I don't care, I love it and that's all that matters to be honest. Will definitely check out more of her work.

Fantastic album! Ute Lemper's voice is powerful and theatrical, with songs that have a mixture of classical, singer-songwriter, and dark cabaret. With songs from Nick Cave, Tom Waits, Kurt Weill, among others, it was an absolute joy to listen to.

this album was so beautiful, her voice made me think of a disney villain, i can’t explain why lol. so many great names on this one

Kinda sorta loved this. Five for originality. Five for chanteusery. And a big five for the line, "if sex were an Olympic sport we'd have won the gold". 5

actually highkey big fan - came out of nowhere, awesome!

What a top tier lineup! Incredible voice, amazing composition, what's not to love.

So...THREE days after remarking that I hadn't heard any theatrical German women in this project after 900 albums, I get to hear another? Yay!

Has it gotten a bit dramatic recently? Not that there is anything wrong with that happening…

I'm pleasantly surprised to see this here, hot on the heels of Dagmar Krause's Tank Battles just a few days ago. I picked up Punishing Kiss on CD about 20 years ago, not knowing much about it --- I knew a bit about Lemper's theater credits and was intrigued to hear her collaborate with Nick Cave, Elvis Costello, Philip Glass, and Tom Waits. (I didn't know The Divine Comedy and Scott Walker at the time but thanks to this project I do now!) Lemper is a great singer with incredible range and a flair for dramatics. The album feels dark and a little creepy and definitely worth its place on this list.

Really terrific! Ute Lemper’s interpretation of these songs had me entranced. Yet another album I likely would never have encountered but for this project.

wonderful

J'ai vraiment vraiment bien aimé, c'était une super découverte. Les chansons sont très bien choisies et très bien interprétées, et l'orchestration en mode intense est fort bien employée. Une cool façon d'aborder les chansons à la Tom Waits ou autre qui peuvent parfois manquer de musicalité.

Really love the voice, old style cabaret singing on Tom Waits and Elvis Costello is something I never knew I needed. What I didn't need was dude from Divine Comedy singing on here at all and his songs just really dull the whole record. The Kurt Weill written song I get but it isn't for me, I can't knock it for that though so it's a 6.8 for me