The Black Saint And The Sinner Lady

Mingus? Dingus more like. This made my day worse.

I can’t claim to know much about jazz at all. Especially not avant-garde, experimental jazz like this. But I loved this album so much. It’s an album where you just give yourself over to the way the music feels. It teases you with a reprise that you think you’re familiar with, then beats you round the head with a horn section for getting too comfortable. It has moments of delicacy and beauty, and of utter stormy cacophonous noise. Putting aside the stories about Mingus (aggressive, violent bugger, essentially) it feels like these people are all playing for their lives. Quite a thing to behold

It’s good to check in on your preferences once in a while in case your tastes change, sometimes you’ll find you love something you didn’t before, or at least you appreciate it more! In this case, I’m here to report that I still hate jazz.

Personally, this is a top 3 jazz album OF ALL TIME. It's dark, unsettling, both fitting of the past and the future. Mingus had been no stranger to aggressive or dark music prior, but goddamn this record takes it to a new level. Required listening for any self-proclaimed fan of jazz. Cannot praise enough.

I can't. I feel like there's some 'emperor's new clothes' thing going on with jazz like this. Like, don't they see he's wearing nothing?! I keep waiting for that eureka moment when I might understand it a little, but it has yet to come. The noise almost hurts my brain, it's overbearing, dissonant, disturbing. Maybe that's the point. I don't get it.

i don't have to say anything about this album. jesus christ what a masterpiece. i give a lot of albums 5s, because i fucking love music, but this is a 6. it's a 10. it's a 100. goddamn.

This touched my thought while my world's affluence crumbled at his feet.

dirty sexy rollercoaster

Track A was such a dirty, dark track. I feel like it's telling the story of the sinner lady working as a sex worker. She finishes up with her client and heads to a bar. Track B feels like the black saint and the sinner lady meeting at the bar for the first time and there is this kind of balancing act of hitting it off but also there is some friction between them due to the sinner lady being a sex worker. It still kind of has this like dirty grimy feel to it with some like happy and sexy moments in there. Track C almost feels like regret. Maybe the black saint is feeling regret from what happened the night before. The black saint starts to do mental gymnastics because he enjoyed the night but also does not approve of the sinner lady. Most of this song is him dealing with this cognitive dissonance. Mode D feels like the black saint decided he couldn't deal with the fact that the sinner lady is a sinner. He decides to ignore the sinner lady and never talk to her again. This obviously is a difficult decision for her and you can hear some mental turmoil throughout the song as he's dealing with this. This goes on for a while. He's dealing with this pain the rest of his life. I don't know if I've ever heard and album tell a story this well before. This might not be the story that was intended but it's what I heard. The instruments are acting both as the conversation between the characters and also as the background music and it does such a good job portraying the emotions felt.

This is what ADHD sounds like when you like jazz.

This is like as archetypal as experimental jazz gets. Wildly changing time signatures, multiple keys soloing at the same time, crazy studio editing tricks to make it sound even more cacophonous (that flamenco guitar section though). This is one of those records that sounds like it could soundtrack On The Road or something. One of Mingus’ best. Favorite Track: Track-C Group Dancers “(Soul Fusion) Freewoman and Oh, This Freedom's Slave Cries” Least Favorite Track: Track-A Solo Dancers "Stop! Look! And Listen, Sinner Jim Whitney!" (If I had to pick one)

A wonderful artistic expression. It takes you away from any thought or emotion and shows you whatever you need to feel within that small musically accompanied moment. It's absolutely incredible

Please...please...no more twenty-minute jazz songs. Please.

Killer album. I love the low end, Bass, Tuba, Bari Sax. Just the wide variety of instruments all coming together for such a beautiful piece.

This is heavy music--there's a lot going on here, and I don't think this is a jazz album to drop in the middle of a broader range of styles and say, "Here, this one is one of the best." It may be, but it's for hardcore jazzheads. I think "Mingus Ah Um" or "Mingus Plays Piano" is better for the general listener to get familiar with Mingus. This would be better suited for "1001 Jazz Albums To Hear Before You Die." Great album? Probably. Over my head? Definitely. 3/5, just because our esteemed editors haven't read the room. Including this album is just pretentious or lazy; not sure which.

Yo this jazz is HOT Big textures Bold horns Dark club sandwiched with Spanish guitar It works HOT

Very cool and very interesting organized chaos. I’m relatively familiar with other works by the angry man of jazz, but I had never actually heard this album before. The mixing and organization behind every piece on the album (especially from a pre-stereo view when the album was made) is incredible and shows that deep thought was given to the somewhat avat garde compositions. Also, the shear amount of different instruments on this album is also impressive-it feels like I’m hearing a different horn or woodwind every second-with the Piano always acting as a sort of anchor. And then a guitar shows up out of nowhere! What the fuck! Side 2 of the record (song 4) is easily the blending off all things good and unique. It’s definitely not for everyone, but if you like big band, jazz, or classical music I’d def give this one a listen.

One second you’re enjoying a sophisticated manhattan whilst chatting up someone at the bar. The next, running from the mob through back alleys in a foreign country. Romanic, chaotic and so much tension

I'm sorry Charles Mingus, I wasn't familiar with your game.

JAZZ!

Not bad, but I found it hard to shake the feeling that I was listening to a better-than-average soundtrack to a half forgotten film noir. Great arrangement for a big band, but really only soundtrack music.

To anyone that says, "I don't like jazz", I'd say, "You aren't listening to the right jazz for you then." Jazz is like a therapist -very personal and you may have to try a lot of it before you find the right jazz for you :) <> People on tv who liked jazz were portrayed as pretentious and the jazz they played in movies for those people was like listening to "Free Bird"'s guitar solo on repeat a bajillion times aka not for me AND THEN, Rachael played me a song or two on a most unforgettable road trip. It was big band music and it was stuff I had heard without knowing it (Thanks, Tom & Jerry). I immediately bought the Ken Burns Jazz 5-cd set and wore it out. <> Mingus looks like Bunk from The Wire - who wouldn't like that? ;-) <> Listening to this album, the 40 min flew by so I'd say I liked it as I search for Ken Burns collection on spotify...

I am not @ good judge of jazz or a jazz man at all. Not like I hated it, but wouldn't listen again

The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady is a steamroller of a record, a steamy soundtrack to some sort of excessive yet controlled bash, a cosmopolitan assembly, a rooftop brawl. A fearsome lot is going on on this album, but the main point is understood: the center couldn't hold, but the collapse has a beauty, a logic of its own. Mingus put together one of the greatest albums of all time w/ this four-piece masterpiece, and I do not tire of listening to it. Strangely too, it fits more moods than you'd initially think: there's quiet in it, there's stillness, there's a supported contemplativeness, particularly at the outset of the third movement. The ever-fertile touch is Jay Berliner's Spanish guitar work. America's composer after Duke and Monk is Mingus.

This brings to mind a remark - maybe from Kevin Shields? - that psychedelia should work on the body as well as the mind, and I follow the song titles as choreographer directions, track one for a single dancer, track 2 for two, so on, though I stumble when I try to match these descriptions with what the musicians are doing. It was incontrovertibly clear to them: even when the music’s bursting at the seams, it’s in formation. The saunters and gallops are tremendous, with louche preambles suggesting they’re ultimately fornicating to pieces, which is pleasing. Also brought to mind are comminplace filmic comparisons, tolerated 30 years later by Portishead - soundtracks for unmade films. Tracks lack the repetition of and return to motif of song, closer to sound-image making, the wilder parts anticipating Morricone’s freakiest tracks. The stealth-surrealists at the Walt Disney Corporation could have illustrated this with a film that would’ve gone down equally well in vernissages and smut theatres. A friend’s eldest child is called Mingus. They’re both very cool.

So many things come to mind when hearing this album. It sounds like a party gone mad. It sounds like the music is ready to fall apart at any moment but somehow still holds together. It sounds like it could be the soundtrack to some bawdy film noir. Then throughout there's moments of utter peace and beauty. I would say there isn't a jazz album like it but that's too obvious. Is it even a jazz album? There's the problem with labels. It has to be categorized somehow so that it can be placed in the appropriate section in the record bins. Very few jazz albums also feature both a Tuba and a Classical Guitar (that would be bonus points if it already didn't deserve its 5 stars but the music already accomplished that) This review could go on for a while if I went into everything that went through my mind when listening to it instead of just touching on the broad ideas in the first paragraph. It's been a few years since I put this on and I had to listen to it twice and want to put it on yet again. Thank you Mingus!

It's been a while since I binge-listened to most of the Mingus discography. I'd forgotten just how good this masterpiece is. It takes the legacies of blues and swing, distils it into wild avant-garde big band jazz, and triple-filters the liquor through classical, folk dance and Spanish guitar. It's a mind-melting achievement, which sounds incredibly fresh and urgent and unique, even after decades of being a widely celebrated record. I love how the ferocious energy bubbles up into different sounds, then a lid goes on temporarily. The ups and downs give it a narrative structure - not that it tells me a story, but that you feel it taking the shape of a progressing narrative. But honestly, I'm making it sound academic and boring, when it is actually an energising rollercoaster. 5*

For me, this is the absolute pinnacle of Third Stream, and Mingus’s greatest masterwork.

The perfect balance between melody and noise. 7/10 FT: Track C

The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady This didn’t quite grab me in the way that other recent jazz albums have, neither quite having the smoky flavour of Charlie Parker or eccentricity and shifting soundscapes of Miles Davis, and in places it feels like an overly clarinet-ty Pink Panther-esque, 50s Disney film soundtrack. There are some excellent passages though, the twinkly piano and sinuous horns at the start of Track B before it all gets a bit Minnie the Moocher/Trio advert, and the Spanish guitars leading into a moody cacophony on Track C is great, and I can appreciate the technical skill across it all, the piano in particular. But overall this didn’t speak to me the way Kind of Blue or Bitches Brew or even Hot Rats did. Despite some great moments, and apart from Track C it felt to me like it had a slightly sludgy, treacly feel to it, like wading through jazz soup with heavy legs. Even though there are a lot of changes in tempo it doesn’t, for me, quite have the fleet footed kineticism of some of the other jazz albums I’ve really liked, lacking a bit of groove and swing. Tough one to rate, it’s between 2 and 3, but I’ll go 3 as I think I will give it another try in future and there are some excellent moments and Track C is great. ✝️✝️✝️ Playlist submission: Track C - Group Dancers

I really tried to find the artistic side of this album and see a way to enjoy it, but with all the respect in my heart this just felt like a pure cacophony of noise lol. It definitely feels like the soundtrack for any manic pixie dream girl of the late 50’s early 60’s. Mad respect to Mingus but just not my style.

Sounds like you give a preschool class some wind instruments and drums and press record. Just can't get into that stuff.

Favorite track(s): the whole damn thing. Pretty much everything you hope a jazz record is. Complex without losing any listenability. Every instrument has so much character but none are lost in the crowd. You'll dance, you'll cry, and you'll ask for just one more ride. Heard before Previous rating: 9/10

Wow. I'm not someone who gets the feels from most jazz, I prefer my grooves in the pocket rather than swinging. But this is an exception, an obvious masterwork even to the unrefined like me. Mingus brings a manic fury to these pieces, and it's hypnotic.

The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady is an album that truly reveals itself once you understand the turning point jazz was approaching in the early 1960s. Mingus stands here with one foot still rooted in orchestrated, harmonically structured jazz, and the other stepping firmly toward a more modular, collective way of thinking, where music is built from motion, tension, and real-time interaction rather than predetermined chord progressions. The core of the album isn’t individual solos but its overarching dramaturgy. The suite unfolds as a series of interconnected movements, where recurring motifs, rhythmic surges, and emotional releases create an almost balletic narrative. This is not background jazz. It is physical and psychological music, where movement and feeling are as essential as harmony. Mingus’s compositional language is both disciplined and volatile. Spanish and flamenco influences, blues, modern jazz, and moments that verge on free jazz coexist without the album ever losing coherence. The modular structure makes this possible: the music is no longer bound to constant chord changes, allowing energy to shift fluidly from theme to theme and from player to player. The nine-piece ensemble functions like a living organism. The traditional role of a conductor is effectively absent; direction emerges through listening, reacting, and collectively pushing the music forward. Mingus remains a powerful compositional force, but the album breathes through group interaction rather than top-down control. What makes The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady especially compelling is how personal it feels. This is not merely a formal experiment but an internal struggle rendered in sound. It is restless, dramatic, and at times unsettling, yet deeply rewarding. Heard in the context of jazz’s broader evolution, the album clarifies why Mingus was not just a composer or a bassist, but the embodiment of a musical philosophy. This is a record that resists instant comprehension, but one that gives more with every return, as the listener’s ears and understanding continue to evolve.

Never thought I would rate a jazz album 5 stars. Extra star for the cover!

This was recorded in one day, these cats were on top of their game. I've been a fan of Mingus for a while. When a much younger me was a bass player I always paid more attention when the bassist had a prominent role in writing. This really is a masterpiece. 5 stars all day.

maravilloso maravilloso maravilloso

Man, I fucking love this music. It's my favorite type of jazz. Track B was the jam. I will be listening to more of this gentleman. This is a 5 from me.

Brilliant. One of the best Jazz albums.

Was already familiar with this album. One of my favorite jazz albums. And was the perfect choice for this gloomy summer day in SF. 5/5

Epic

There were some lulls, but, I feel like I went on a journey that I really couldn't resist. This is a jazz album I'd share with anyone looking to learn more about jazz.

Ladies and gentlemen, we've arrived. I've been a Mingus Head for a while, though I hadn't heard this one. I've heard others, like Pithencanthropus Erectus and Blues and Roots. I've known this to be his big masterpiece, and I've been looking forward to hearing it. Boy, does it deliver. Just four tracks, but each incorporates so many facets of jazz and spans so many genres and subgenres with ease. I love these tracks often start out unassuming, or in a style of refined jazz that might seem safe, and then they just explode with life. Instruments are made to moan and scream, it's jarring. There's so much going on that obviously I can't process everything on one listen, but it's just so great that I know there will be many more listens to come. Immediately entering my handful of top jazz albums though, what a behemoth. Mingus is the man. Favorite tracks: All of 'em, though one highlight that sticks out is the flamenco-style guitar near the beginning of the last track, so beautiful. Album art: Pretty unassuming. The text and style is very bold, but to be comfortable with a cover this simple I'm interpreting to mean Mingus knew he cooked up something otherworldly, and he wanted to catch listeners off-guard. It worked. 5/5

I really loved this. It had elements of minimalism, with long sustained ostinatos, almost droning. The tempo and meter shifts were surprising. For a jazz album, there weren't as many solos as I would expect, but they were interesting.

A great expression of free jazz, the emotion and passion that Mingus gets into his albums is almost unrivaled to me.

v nice jazz

An amazing album of pure jazz enthusiasts who appreciate his artistry. One of the best, with Miles and T. Monk. Enjoy!

Typically when considering the greatest jazz albums of all time, the list is topped by Miles' Kind of Blue and Coltrane's A Love Supreme, while The Black Saint And The Sinner is usually positioned somewhere in the second tier. Black Saint is an excellent expresssion of Mingus' genius, though personally I think there are a few of his other albums that are a bit more accessible (Mingus Ah Um, Tijuana Moods).

Is this good jazz or bad jazz? It's so hard to tell sometimes. Plus this album toes the line by being pretty energetic and boisterous. Overall, I liked it though. So I'm going to say it's good jazz.

Really fun concept album, it was a little hard to get into until track B, but I would probably listen again. Like “Sketches of Spain” Mingus demonstrates talent but it’s not exactly catchy.

A little turned off by the farting noise in my right ear for the first minute or so but then things got nicely layered before breaking into a discordant mess then lurching into a groove where the bass really shines. It feels as if the instruments are competing against each other rather than working together. Interesting approach. Track B is more appealing--slow, languid with bursts of what sounds like something trying to catch up then coming together into a ferocious race. The rest of the album is a compelling listen--this is not jazz to play in the background while you have a cocktail and chat with your neighbor. This is jazz to play when you want everyone to leave so you can lie down and think about how much you hate them. Also, did someone say God Dammit on the last track?

these cats did in fact cook

Jazz piano has my heart

I'm an absolutely massive swing-era jazz fan --I love swing dancing-- but as jazz moved away from the swing era to bebop, modal, and other genres I kinda lose interest since it just isn't for me. Nonetheless, I found this album did work for me, even if it's a bit more experimental, although I don't see myself returning to it any time soon. Solid jazz played by solid musicians.

I like jazz music, but for no good reason, I don't listen to it so frequently. This album is a good remember that I need to listen to it more and more. An excellent album for all days.

Amazing. His 'Blues & Roots' is my favourite jazz record of all time, but this is up there.

Not bad not bad I usually listen to these when working so some good ole instrumental jazz is pretty nice and was indeed very productive while listening to this one I wouldn’t say it left a huge impact on me, and I don’t think I’d listen to any of these songs individually, but not a whole lot to complain about here. Would probably have it as a 7/10 but I’ll keep it as a (high) 3.

It's funny, while listening to this album, all I could think about was how familiar it felt. It was only until the next day that I remembered that I had to give a presentation on this era of jazz and had listened to this album like three years ago. The unfortunate part, is when listening to some of these albums, all I can think of is that music appreciation class. While jazz has grown on me during this project, I still have a hard time listening to music without words. It’s like watching a black and white movie to me like it’s just missing something and in this case that is the instrument and poetry of the voice. Is this good? Absolutely. This is mixed really well, with lots of instrument variety and different song segments and improvisation that show off different musicians who played on this record. In terms of jazz this is as good as it gets. However, me personally, I'm not gonna jump to put this on in the car ride to work or to dance to or anything. It’s a little shocking how fast the tracks go by considering how long they are. I don’t ever feel the album dragging. Its a genuinely good album but jazz is still not my genre of choice 3/5. Did I need to hear this before I die? Nah, but I’m sure some did

Not sure I’ve ever heard of Charles Mingus and definitely never heard of this album, but for a ~40-minute-long jazz standard with four tracks it was pretty easy listening. Not sure I’ll ever come back to it but…

Mid 3 Beautiful sound, it started a 5, but not quite enough idea establishment and development for me. It demands your attention but I can't remember how most of it goes. I need a bit more cohesion in the chaos.

Nice background music.

A very interesting album. For long stretches, I also liked it very much. However, there were also more difficult parts that I didn't get on with so well. The album is certainly very good, but I probably won't listen to it again soon. 3/5

I don't think I'm smart enough to fully appreciate this. 3/5

I was pleased with the flamenco bits.

Lots of interesting themes on here, but little of it stuck. My kids quite liked it, unusual for a jazz record - perhaps because it does sound quite "dance"-oriented, rhythmic?

Mingus is great, not my favorite album of his, my personal favorite is blues and roots but this is still very good. High 3.

Saved Prior: None Saved Off Rip: None Cutting Edge: None Overall Notes: Yes that was in fact jazz. Don't know enough about jazz to really understand what makes good jazz and what doesn't. Sounded pretty good to me, but also sounded like good ol' jazz.

This was cacophonous. Freeform Jazz? It sounded like no one was playing the same song. (double)

I know this is supposed to be a masterpiece, but it's too messy for me I think. A lot of jazz is, and generally the more cutting edge or experimental it gets the less likely it is that I'll get it or like it unfortunately Standouts - 2/5

3/10 Jazz for me is like movie horror, abstract art or a strong spice. A sprinkling of it within another style is fine - in fact, it can enhance flavour and make you take notice. But when it is the whole thing, it makes me sick

I didn't think I'd make it through a second listen, but I stuck it out and gave 'er a go. (pats self on the back) While there are some parts of it I genuinely enjoy, the overwhelming majority just drones on far too long for me to really enjoy it. I appreciate the talent and musicality, but it's a no for me, Mingus.

No private session used for Spotify. I listened to this album twice, trying to get into. I like some jazz, but this goes a bit off the rails for me, it's too eclectic and admittedly over my head.

The gulf between how much I wanted to like this and how much I actually liked this was very wide. It was too chaotic and noisy for me. There are some runs I really liked, but I just couldn't get into this. I feel like a disappointment for not liking it.

Music to have a psychotic break from reality to! This is mostly just a ton of noises not in harmony. Then something cool pops up and is quickly discarded. Ultimately, my dislike of jazz got the better of me here. It wasn't totally unlistenable though, so it avoids the dreaded 1 star score.

This challenge has not been kind to me this weekend. First, Super Furry Animals—and now, more jazz. Unfortunately, this album felt like dull background music. The tracks blended together so seamlessly that I struggled to tell when one ended and another began. Track 3, in particular, stood out—but not in a good way. It had an odd, 1950s Disney-esque vibe that felt completely out of place. Very bizarre. I can’t help but wonder how many more jazz or swing albums I’ll have to endure. Favorite track: None stood out enough to pick. Least favorite track: Track 3, without a doubt. Album artwork: Nothing noteworthy to mention.

I can defo see and understand the attraction to this album and its brilliance. Its just not really for me!

Jazz noises Is this music? They are clearly musicians, but I don't want to listen to it.

The best albums of jazz improvisaaaaa

Reed introduced me to this album in second year, at a time when I was allergic to the influence of others. A tendency I still have, that I cover up by saying that my lateness is simply slowness of memory. A gorgeous ballet. That Spanish guitar solo on Mode D is PERFECTION. Feels like New York.

Late-night sloppy drunk, stumbling somewhere between a sultry dream and a nervous breakdown.

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A work of genius. A masterpiece of 20th century composition. Not an easy listen per se. I appreciate the many on here who gave it a chance.

Enjoyed on repeat.

This is a wonderful album. I didn't expect anything from it, but I ended up with one of the best jazz albums I've ever heard. The harmonies are amazing, and every song is captivating.

Que mundo maravilhoso é o jazz

Incredible album. The music flows beautifully from one section to the next. Just when you think it's calming down, it's starts up again. At no point is this dull or uninteresting or uneventful. There's always something bubbling away or in your face. Astonishing, really.

Loved this!

My name is andermingus Nah this is straight fire. A dark, atonal symphony of raw emotion akin to legends of traditional early 20th-century opera such as Strauss and Mahler. Was entranced front-to-back by this album, which tells a more vivid story without a single word than most records can with a thousand. Fav tracks: Group Dancers

A sublime, towering achievement. Can't even begin to figure out what a genius work of art this is.

This was more than slightly mindblowing. An abstract collage of jazz, flamenco style guitar and sax to knock your sox off (sorry) this album became an instant 5.

DAMN - WHAT A FUCKIN VIBE. This is as good as it gets imo. The layers, the tones, the instruments, the compositions, the storytelling - all exceptional. Definitely one of the greatest Jazz entries of all time.

Completely overwhelming. Feels like the soundtrack to an old cartoon in spots and then bombards you with 4 different horns playing 4 different parts just a moment later. It tricks you into thinking it's straight forward big band music, but it's anything but that. It's all over the place.

thrilling -- each time I've listened to this I've discovered another passage that didn't stand out to me the time before. consistently makes my body move. I love the variety of instruments that at times create massive swells and at others trade off in moments of quiet. also one of the more approachable Mingus records I've heard.

First time listening to this, I think. It just sounds like it’s absolutely falling apart, like a really long controlled demolition with fireworks interspersed. Like what I imagine the house band at the Restaurant at the End of the Universe is playing in Hitchhiker’s Guide. Will definitely be coming back to this.

Jazz masterpiece

Headache jazz. Jazz to induce a headache 5/5 i love mingus

This sounds like the music my dad listened to in his den smoking weed. I do like it.

I love jazz and instantly recognized this artist. 39 minutes went by too quickly.

YESS PEAK