The Black Saint And The Sinner Lady

Mingus? Dingus more like. This made my day worse.

I can’t claim to know much about jazz at all. Especially not avant-garde, experimental jazz like this. But I loved this album so much. It’s an album where you just give yourself over to the way the music feels. It teases you with a reprise that you think you’re familiar with, then beats you round the head with a horn section for getting too comfortable. It has moments of delicacy and beauty, and of utter stormy cacophonous noise. Putting aside the stories about Mingus (aggressive, violent bugger, essentially) it feels like these people are all playing for their lives. Quite a thing to behold

I can't. I feel like there's some 'emperor's new clothes' thing going on with jazz like this. Like, don't they see he's wearing nothing?! I keep waiting for that eureka moment when I might understand it a little, but it has yet to come. The noise almost hurts my brain, it's overbearing, dissonant, disturbing. Maybe that's the point. I don't get it.

This touched my thought while my world's affluence crumbled at his feet.

Personally, this is a top 3 jazz album OF ALL TIME. It's dark, unsettling, both fitting of the past and the future. Mingus had been no stranger to aggressive or dark music prior, but goddamn this record takes it to a new level. Required listening for any self-proclaimed fan of jazz. Cannot praise enough.

dirty sexy rollercoaster

It’s good to check in on your preferences once in a while in case your tastes change, sometimes you’ll find you love something you didn’t before, or at least you appreciate it more! In this case, I’m here to report that I still hate jazz.

This is like as archetypal as experimental jazz gets. Wildly changing time signatures, multiple keys soloing at the same time, crazy studio editing tricks to make it sound even more cacophonous (that flamenco guitar section though). This is one of those records that sounds like it could soundtrack On The Road or something. One of Mingus’ best. Favorite Track: Track-C Group Dancers “(Soul Fusion) Freewoman and Oh, This Freedom's Slave Cries” Least Favorite Track: Track-A Solo Dancers "Stop! Look! And Listen, Sinner Jim Whitney!" (If I had to pick one)

A wonderful artistic expression. It takes you away from any thought or emotion and shows you whatever you need to feel within that small musically accompanied moment. It's absolutely incredible

Very cool and very interesting organized chaos. I’m relatively familiar with other works by the angry man of jazz, but I had never actually heard this album before. The mixing and organization behind every piece on the album (especially from a pre-stereo view when the album was made) is incredible and shows that deep thought was given to the somewhat avat garde compositions. Also, the shear amount of different instruments on this album is also impressive-it feels like I’m hearing a different horn or woodwind every second-with the Piano always acting as a sort of anchor. And then a guitar shows up out of nowhere! What the fuck! Side 2 of the record (song 4) is easily the blending off all things good and unique. It’s definitely not for everyone, but if you like big band, jazz, or classical music I’d def give this one a listen.

Killer album. I love the low end, Bass, Tuba, Bari Sax. Just the wide variety of instruments all coming together for such a beautiful piece.

i don't have to say anything about this album. jesus christ what a masterpiece. i give a lot of albums 5s, because i fucking love music, but this is a 6. it's a 10. it's a 100. goddamn.

JAZZ!

To anyone that says, "I don't like jazz", I'd say, "You aren't listening to the right jazz for you then." Jazz is like a therapist -very personal and you may have to try a lot of it before you find the right jazz for you :) <> People on tv who liked jazz were portrayed as pretentious and the jazz they played in movies for those people was like listening to "Free Bird"'s guitar solo on repeat a bajillion times aka not for me AND THEN, Rachael played me a song or two on a most unforgettable road trip. It was big band music and it was stuff I had heard without knowing it (Thanks, Tom & Jerry). I immediately bought the Ken Burns Jazz 5-cd set and wore it out. <> Mingus looks like Bunk from The Wire - who wouldn't like that? ;-) <> Listening to this album, the 40 min flew by so I'd say I liked it as I search for Ken Burns collection on spotify...

This is heavy music--there's a lot going on here, and I don't think this is a jazz album to drop in the middle of a broader range of styles and say, "Here, this one is one of the best." It may be, but it's for hardcore jazzheads. I think "Mingus Ah Um" or "Mingus Plays Piano" is better for the general listener to get familiar with Mingus. This would be better suited for "1001 Jazz Albums To Hear Before You Die." Great album? Probably. Over my head? Definitely. 3/5, just because our esteemed editors haven't read the room. Including this album is just pretentious or lazy; not sure which.

Please...please...no more twenty-minute jazz songs. Please.

Track A was such a dirty, dark track. I feel like it's telling the story of the sinner lady working as a sex worker. She finishes up with her client and heads to a bar. Track B feels like the black saint and the sinner lady meeting at the bar for the first time and there is this kind of balancing act of hitting it off but also there is some friction between them due to the sinner lady being a sex worker. It still kind of has this like dirty grimy feel to it with some like happy and sexy moments in there. Track C almost feels like regret. Maybe the black saint is feeling regret from what happened the night before. The black saint starts to do mental gymnastics because he enjoyed the night but also does not approve of the sinner lady. Most of this song is him dealing with this cognitive dissonance. Mode D feels like the black saint decided he couldn't deal with the fact that the sinner lady is a sinner. He decides to ignore the sinner lady and never talk to her again. This obviously is a difficult decision for her and you can hear some mental turmoil throughout the song as he's dealing with this. This goes on for a while. He's dealing with this pain the rest of his life. I don't know if I've ever heard and album tell a story this well before. This might not be the story that was intended but it's what I heard. The instruments are acting both as the conversation between the characters and also as the background music and it does such a good job portraying the emotions felt.

This brings to mind a remark - maybe from Kevin Shields? - that psychedelia should work on the body as well as the mind, and I follow the song titles as choreographer directions, track one for a single dancer, track 2 for two, so on, though I stumble when I try to match these descriptions with what the musicians are doing. It was incontrovertibly clear to them: even when the music’s bursting at the seams, it’s in formation. The saunters and gallops are tremendous, with louche preambles suggesting they’re ultimately fornicating to pieces, which is pleasing. Also brought to mind are comminplace filmic comparisons, tolerated 30 years later by Portishead - soundtracks for unmade films. Tracks lack the repetition of and return to motif of song, closer to sound-image making, the wilder parts anticipating Morricone’s freakiest tracks. The stealth-surrealists at the Walt Disney Corporation could have illustrated this with a film that would’ve gone down equally well in vernissages and smut theatres. A friend’s eldest child is called Mingus. They’re both very cool.

So many things come to mind when hearing this album. It sounds like a party gone mad. It sounds like the music is ready to fall apart at any moment but somehow still holds together. It sounds like it could be the soundtrack to some bawdy film noir. Then throughout there's moments of utter peace and beauty. I would say there isn't a jazz album like it but that's too obvious. Is it even a jazz album? There's the problem with labels. It has to be categorized somehow so that it can be placed in the appropriate section in the record bins. Very few jazz albums also feature both a Tuba and a Classical Guitar (that would be bonus points if it already didn't deserve its 5 stars but the music already accomplished that) This review could go on for a while if I went into everything that went through my mind when listening to it instead of just touching on the broad ideas in the first paragraph. It's been a few years since I put this on and I had to listen to it twice and want to put it on yet again. Thank you Mingus!

Yo this jazz is HOT Big textures Bold horns Dark club sandwiched with Spanish guitar It works HOT

It's been a while since I binge-listened to most of the Mingus discography. I'd forgotten just how good this masterpiece is. It takes the legacies of blues and swing, distils it into wild avant-garde big band jazz, and triple-filters the liquor through classical, folk dance and Spanish guitar. It's a mind-melting achievement, which sounds incredibly fresh and urgent and unique, even after decades of being a widely celebrated record. I love how the ferocious energy bubbles up into different sounds, then a lid goes on temporarily. The ups and downs give it a narrative structure - not that it tells me a story, but that you feel it taking the shape of a progressing narrative. But honestly, I'm making it sound academic and boring, when it is actually an energising rollercoaster. 5*

For me, this is the absolute pinnacle of Third Stream, and Mingus’s greatest masterwork.

The perfect balance between melody and noise. 7/10 FT: Track C

I am not @ good judge of jazz or a jazz man at all. Not like I hated it, but wouldn't listen again

There were some lulls, but, I feel like I went on a journey that I really couldn't resist. This is a jazz album I'd share with anyone looking to learn more about jazz.

I'm sorry Charles Mingus, I wasn't familiar with your game.

v nice jazz

I really loved this. It had elements of minimalism, with long sustained ostinatos, almost droning. The tempo and meter shifts were surprising. For a jazz album, there weren't as many solos as I would expect, but they were interesting.

Ladies and gentlemen, we've arrived. I've been a Mingus Head for a while, though I hadn't heard this one. I've heard others, like Pithencanthropus Erectus and Blues and Roots. I've known this to be his big masterpiece, and I've been looking forward to hearing it. Boy, does it deliver. Just four tracks, but each incorporates so many facets of jazz and spans so many genres and subgenres with ease. I love these tracks often start out unassuming, or in a style of refined jazz that might seem safe, and then they just explode with life. Instruments are made to moan and scream, it's jarring. There's so much going on that obviously I can't process everything on one listen, but it's just so great that I know there will be many more listens to come. Immediately entering my handful of top jazz albums though, what a behemoth. Mingus is the man. Favorite tracks: All of 'em, though one highlight that sticks out is the flamenco-style guitar near the beginning of the last track, so beautiful. Album art: Pretty unassuming. The text and style is very bold, but to be comfortable with a cover this simple I'm interpreting to mean Mingus knew he cooked up something otherworldly, and he wanted to catch listeners off-guard. It worked. 5/5

A great expression of free jazz, the emotion and passion that Mingus gets into his albums is almost unrivaled to me.

Amazing. His 'Blues & Roots' is my favourite jazz record of all time, but this is up there.

I like jazz music, but for no good reason, I don't listen to it so frequently. This album is a good remember that I need to listen to it more and more. An excellent album for all days.

I'm an absolutely massive swing-era jazz fan --I love swing dancing-- but as jazz moved away from the swing era to bebop, modal, and other genres I kinda lose interest since it just isn't for me. Nonetheless, I found this album did work for me, even if it's a bit more experimental, although I don't see myself returning to it any time soon. Solid jazz played by solid musicians.

A little turned off by the farting noise in my right ear for the first minute or so but then things got nicely layered before breaking into a discordant mess then lurching into a groove where the bass really shines. It feels as if the instruments are competing against each other rather than working together. Interesting approach. Track B is more appealing--slow, languid with bursts of what sounds like something trying to catch up then coming together into a ferocious race. The rest of the album is a compelling listen--this is not jazz to play in the background while you have a cocktail and chat with your neighbor. This is jazz to play when you want everyone to leave so you can lie down and think about how much you hate them. Also, did someone say God Dammit on the last track?

these cats did in fact cook

Jazz piano has my heart

This is what ADHD sounds like when you like jazz

Saved Prior: None Saved Off Rip: None Cutting Edge: None Overall Notes: Yes that was in fact jazz. Don't know enough about jazz to really understand what makes good jazz and what doesn't. Sounded pretty good to me, but also sounded like good ol' jazz.

I was pleased with the flamenco bits.

Lots of interesting themes on here, but little of it stuck. My kids quite liked it, unusual for a jazz record - perhaps because it does sound quite "dance"-oriented, rhythmic?

Mingus is great, not my favorite album of his, my personal favorite is blues and roots but this is still very good. High 3.

Music to have a psychotic break from reality to! This is mostly just a ton of noises not in harmony. Then something cool pops up and is quickly discarded. Ultimately, my dislike of jazz got the better of me here. It wasn't totally unlistenable though, so it avoids the dreaded 1 star score.

Sounds like you give a preschool class some wind instruments and drums and press record. Just can't get into that stuff.

Jazz noises Is this music? They are clearly musicians, but I don't want to listen to it.

A 5. An unqualified masterpiece. It's just so damn good.

Holy shit, two jazz albums in a row! While I liked the Keith Jarrett album I got yesterday, I fucking love Mingus. His songs just pack so much furious energy into every measure. Captivating from beginning to end 5/5

superb - already want to listen to this again with a proper sit down

Incredible. What a journey - through a city, through a mind. Not \"listen to it in the background\" music.

Jazz is not my favorite. But I can recognize and appreciate the talent it took to make this album.

Beautifully chaotic. Went straight out and found another album of his to listen to.

excellent! but I am biased towards this genre of jazz.

Mingus is one of the greatest bandleaders in jazz. This album is a multi part song cycle that borrows from jazz, classical, Latin, and African music. It is at times more accessible and more abstract at others. Structured loosely as a ballet, this album remineded me somewhat of Stravinsky's Rite of Spring. This is one of those pieces of music that transcends genre and will stand as a work of genius.

Fantástico

right down my ally

Just the best jazz album ever

jazzao muito massa aham

Reminded me why I love good jazz.

Wild and adventurous.

This was a great jazz album, and I'm definitely going to look into more albums by Mingus (note to self: Wikipedia says "Mingus Ah Um" is his other masterpiece).

4.5 | Hace muchos años aprendí qué son los Ostinatos en la música gracias a este disco. Solo hay realmente dos discos de Charles Mingus así que supongo que el otro no estará aquí. En mi opinión este es mejor, es su obra mejor lograda, tiene un sentido entero, dirección y un fondo conceptual sólido. El problema puede ser que llega a ser demasiado densa y si no se tiene conocimiento de las notas que acompañan al album puede parecer un monton de música improvisada sin sentido, a pesar de todo creo que incluso cuando no se lee el acompañamiento se puede sentir la calidad de música, la prevalencia obviamente de ese contrabajo y por supuesto la parte que creo es más famosona, cuando todo se vuelve una guitarra española por un instante. Si lo comparamos con Bitches Brew por ejemplo, tenemos un disco que por muchos años le gana a Miles, se siente menos experimental en algunos aspectos, menos "free flow" que el otro, pero muchísimo más denso y con contenido. Entendible a quien no le agrade, en realidad es un disco que exige atención y el tiempo pero que repaga con creces.

I like the part where it goes doot doot

So good, how have I not come across this album before now? I like jazz but don't listen to it regularly, electro wins out generally for me. Still have listened to Mingus before. Never heard Mingus like this though. Gorgeous. One for the repeat list, makes me wish I had it on vinyl (and a vinyl player, AND room for one!).

Really great

Debauched jazz; runs the gamut of emotions while being sonically perfect. Fuckin a.

A great classic!

Beautiful!

An absolutely amazing jazz standard. There is so much going on - just melodies weaving in and out of each other. Absolute classic

Wow, I loved listening to this. Interesting to have 2 jazz albums so close together. I greatly prefer this style to Kind of Blue, personally.

Un classique. Comment combiner des arrangements hyper riches avec des trippes et un jeu super organique. On joue avec les dynamiques, les tempos et tout ce qui est possible. L’album ne sert pas à mettre en valeur la contrebasse, mais la musique. Superbe !

My only other jazz listening experience is with Monk and I gotta say Mingus feels more fluid and easier to engage with thus far. I still put Monk Live in Tokyo at the top of my list but this album is a banger.

Great morning album especially the 18minute ending tune

Odlican album, veoma interesantan i osvezavajuci. 9/10

Changed my life

Latin music really turns the elevator-ish jazz into an explosive monster. I felt every note in this album. The struggles and build-up of the drums, the wailing of the violins, the Tom and Jerry-ish flow of the wind instruments... All of these sound so chaotic and human. And because of that, every second of this is such an adventure. That's the epitome of a musical experience. This is probably how jazz sounds to jazz fans. Not a boring, lengthy musical fiddling but an experience beyond words. I'm not a big fan of jazz, but I freaking love this bad boy.

Yes!

As expected, Mingus took me on a journey. Some good places, others pretty dark. The musicianship on display here is amazing in ways I would struggle to express, so I'll take an easy cop-out and just give it five stars.

The 60's were a wild time to be a part of the jazz scene. Bebop, established in the 40's out of necessity to contrast the big band boys, had grown into hard bop in the 50's with an influence of blues melodies. Then the 60's came around and we can see the need to break down the walls of conventional jazz rules, a way to start reinventing the genre; Charles Mingus has always been at the forefront of this. Mingus plays by his own definitions of jazz along with Ornette Coleman (not featured on this list) to bring a new experience to listeners. The Black Saint And The Sinner Lady is a crowning achievement of Mingus and Avant-garde jazz as a whole. It's theatrical, progressive, and beautiful all in one package. Truth be told, this is an album that should be wholly experienced, with art and liner notes. Additional, this is a successful blend of jazz and classical that is never boring or excessive. I don't know how else to talk about it other than encouraging you to really listen, with more than just your ears, and visualize this album to the best of your ability.

This is one of my favorite jazz albums. Mingus here is at the top of his game, experimenting and innovating. It is a total ride.

I've never really enjoyed Jazz, but this kept drawing me back with interesting rhythms and sounds and phrases.

I feel supremely unqualified to comment on any jazz album's quality relative to another's, but I will say that out of all the jazz I've listened to for this project (including Bitches Brew and Kind of Blue, among others), this is by far the most interesting. It's innovative in all the right ways and it sounds like more than just a music theory exercise. Plus they included a contrabass trombone! Who the hell does that? An unexpected joy. Best track: Track C - Group Dancers [(Soul Fusion) Freewoman and Oh, This Freedom's Slave Cries]

slapper of the highest order, first song is madness

Basically the perfect Jazz album. Technical.

So energetic and vital, really lifted my spirits. More like this please.

I think this is now one of the best jazz album I've ever heard. The arrangements are incredibly brilliant and ahead of their time. The sounds of each instrument are used in an original and unexpected way. I want this album on vinyl now.

I'm listening to this as the only person in my office on a Friday that is gray and rainy out. This, album is perfect and its impossible to pause or walk away from it once you start it. It's hard to pick a favorite track, but that closing medley is a hell of a tune.

I think this is awesome music and should be required listening. I don't know how Mingus was able to pull off the combination of styles with a free jazz vibe, but he did. At times it sounds like a soundtrack, at times an avant-garde troupe playing live. A magnificent suite.

Those orchestrations are miraculous. No one sounds like Mingus and his blend of experimental big band, classical music and the so-called world music. Most importantly, he kept pushing the jazz genre forward while still bopping hard. This album is a testament to his genius.

This album is stunning, a jazz masterpiece in everything that made jazz unique in the early 1960s - a single composition that stars almost like a ballet and evolves to become very experimental, with an eleven piece big band working in full synergy to deliver something unique, with a beautiful orchestration. Mingus' piano sounds amazing, and his double bass is also out of this world. There's nothing like The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady.

Really good! Listened to while working out. A bop. 5/5

Fantastic album, very fresh

Never heard this before - amazing! Recorded in one day! Only 11 people - sounds like many more!

versatile, storytelling jazz.

Stunning. Unlike anything I’ve heard before. Completely absorbing. Such depth, such intensity, such reshaping of the world through music. Towering achievement.

Now that's what I call jazz.

Reminded me of ‘Kind of Blue’. Definitely one to revisit.

Perfect.

One of the best albums of Mingus - not much too add, other than this is a great album.

Stunning. Heavy. The best album recommended to me so far.

Not Mingus's best album, but still an easy five stars.

First time listening: 4/4 songs liked Now, this album is a jazz trip for sure. Didn't ideas melding together in its cohesive titles and movements, this one is way more efficient in its use of length despite its only 4 song repertoire. Wouldn't save any songs, but it's definitely worth a listen. No songs saved