The Black Saint And The Sinner Lady

Mingus? Dingus more like. This made my day worse.

I can’t claim to know much about jazz at all. Especially not avant-garde, experimental jazz like this. But I loved this album so much. It’s an album where you just give yourself over to the way the music feels. It teases you with a reprise that you think you’re familiar with, then beats you round the head with a horn section for getting too comfortable. It has moments of delicacy and beauty, and of utter stormy cacophonous noise. Putting aside the stories about Mingus (aggressive, violent bugger, essentially) it feels like these people are all playing for their lives. Quite a thing to behold

I can't. I feel like there's some 'emperor's new clothes' thing going on with jazz like this. Like, don't they see he's wearing nothing?! I keep waiting for that eureka moment when I might understand it a little, but it has yet to come. The noise almost hurts my brain, it's overbearing, dissonant, disturbing. Maybe that's the point. I don't get it.

It’s good to check in on your preferences once in a while in case your tastes change, sometimes you’ll find you love something you didn’t before, or at least you appreciate it more! In this case, I’m here to report that I still hate jazz.

This touched my thought while my world's affluence crumbled at his feet.

Personally, this is a top 3 jazz album OF ALL TIME. It's dark, unsettling, both fitting of the past and the future. Mingus had been no stranger to aggressive or dark music prior, but goddamn this record takes it to a new level. Required listening for any self-proclaimed fan of jazz. Cannot praise enough.

dirty sexy rollercoaster

i don't have to say anything about this album. jesus christ what a masterpiece. i give a lot of albums 5s, because i fucking love music, but this is a 6. it's a 10. it's a 100. goddamn.

This is like as archetypal as experimental jazz gets. Wildly changing time signatures, multiple keys soloing at the same time, crazy studio editing tricks to make it sound even more cacophonous (that flamenco guitar section though). This is one of those records that sounds like it could soundtrack On The Road or something. One of Mingus’ best. Favorite Track: Track-C Group Dancers “(Soul Fusion) Freewoman and Oh, This Freedom's Slave Cries” Least Favorite Track: Track-A Solo Dancers "Stop! Look! And Listen, Sinner Jim Whitney!" (If I had to pick one)

Very cool and very interesting organized chaos. I’m relatively familiar with other works by the angry man of jazz, but I had never actually heard this album before. The mixing and organization behind every piece on the album (especially from a pre-stereo view when the album was made) is incredible and shows that deep thought was given to the somewhat avat garde compositions. Also, the shear amount of different instruments on this album is also impressive-it feels like I’m hearing a different horn or woodwind every second-with the Piano always acting as a sort of anchor. And then a guitar shows up out of nowhere! What the fuck! Side 2 of the record (song 4) is easily the blending off all things good and unique. It’s definitely not for everyone, but if you like big band, jazz, or classical music I’d def give this one a listen.

A wonderful artistic expression. It takes you away from any thought or emotion and shows you whatever you need to feel within that small musically accompanied moment. It's absolutely incredible

Killer album. I love the low end, Bass, Tuba, Bari Sax. Just the wide variety of instruments all coming together for such a beautiful piece.

Track A was such a dirty, dark track. I feel like it's telling the story of the sinner lady working as a sex worker. She finishes up with her client and heads to a bar. Track B feels like the black saint and the sinner lady meeting at the bar for the first time and there is this kind of balancing act of hitting it off but also there is some friction between them due to the sinner lady being a sex worker. It still kind of has this like dirty grimy feel to it with some like happy and sexy moments in there. Track C almost feels like regret. Maybe the black saint is feeling regret from what happened the night before. The black saint starts to do mental gymnastics because he enjoyed the night but also does not approve of the sinner lady. Most of this song is him dealing with this cognitive dissonance. Mode D feels like the black saint decided he couldn't deal with the fact that the sinner lady is a sinner. He decides to ignore the sinner lady and never talk to her again. This obviously is a difficult decision for her and you can hear some mental turmoil throughout the song as he's dealing with this. This goes on for a while. He's dealing with this pain the rest of his life. I don't know if I've ever heard and album tell a story this well before. This might not be the story that was intended but it's what I heard. The instruments are acting both as the conversation between the characters and also as the background music and it does such a good job portraying the emotions felt.

JAZZ!

This is heavy music--there's a lot going on here, and I don't think this is a jazz album to drop in the middle of a broader range of styles and say, "Here, this one is one of the best." It may be, but it's for hardcore jazzheads. I think "Mingus Ah Um" or "Mingus Plays Piano" is better for the general listener to get familiar with Mingus. This would be better suited for "1001 Jazz Albums To Hear Before You Die." Great album? Probably. Over my head? Definitely. 3/5, just because our esteemed editors haven't read the room. Including this album is just pretentious or lazy; not sure which.

To anyone that says, "I don't like jazz", I'd say, "You aren't listening to the right jazz for you then." Jazz is like a therapist -very personal and you may have to try a lot of it before you find the right jazz for you :) <> People on tv who liked jazz were portrayed as pretentious and the jazz they played in movies for those people was like listening to "Free Bird"'s guitar solo on repeat a bajillion times aka not for me AND THEN, Rachael played me a song or two on a most unforgettable road trip. It was big band music and it was stuff I had heard without knowing it (Thanks, Tom & Jerry). I immediately bought the Ken Burns Jazz 5-cd set and wore it out. <> Mingus looks like Bunk from The Wire - who wouldn't like that? ;-) <> Listening to this album, the 40 min flew by so I'd say I liked it as I search for Ken Burns collection on spotify...

I am not @ good judge of jazz or a jazz man at all. Not like I hated it, but wouldn't listen again

Please...please...no more twenty-minute jazz songs. Please.

This brings to mind a remark - maybe from Kevin Shields? - that psychedelia should work on the body as well as the mind, and I follow the song titles as choreographer directions, track one for a single dancer, track 2 for two, so on, though I stumble when I try to match these descriptions with what the musicians are doing. It was incontrovertibly clear to them: even when the music’s bursting at the seams, it’s in formation. The saunters and gallops are tremendous, with louche preambles suggesting they’re ultimately fornicating to pieces, which is pleasing. Also brought to mind are comminplace filmic comparisons, tolerated 30 years later by Portishead - soundtracks for unmade films. Tracks lack the repetition of and return to motif of song, closer to sound-image making, the wilder parts anticipating Morricone’s freakiest tracks. The stealth-surrealists at the Walt Disney Corporation could have illustrated this with a film that would’ve gone down equally well in vernissages and smut theatres. A friend’s eldest child is called Mingus. They’re both very cool.

Yo this jazz is HOT Big textures Bold horns Dark club sandwiched with Spanish guitar It works HOT

So many things come to mind when hearing this album. It sounds like a party gone mad. It sounds like the music is ready to fall apart at any moment but somehow still holds together. It sounds like it could be the soundtrack to some bawdy film noir. Then throughout there's moments of utter peace and beauty. I would say there isn't a jazz album like it but that's too obvious. Is it even a jazz album? There's the problem with labels. It has to be categorized somehow so that it can be placed in the appropriate section in the record bins. Very few jazz albums also feature both a Tuba and a Classical Guitar (that would be bonus points if it already didn't deserve its 5 stars but the music already accomplished that) This review could go on for a while if I went into everything that went through my mind when listening to it instead of just touching on the broad ideas in the first paragraph. It's been a few years since I put this on and I had to listen to it twice and want to put it on yet again. Thank you Mingus!

It's been a while since I binge-listened to most of the Mingus discography. I'd forgotten just how good this masterpiece is. It takes the legacies of blues and swing, distils it into wild avant-garde big band jazz, and triple-filters the liquor through classical, folk dance and Spanish guitar. It's a mind-melting achievement, which sounds incredibly fresh and urgent and unique, even after decades of being a widely celebrated record. I love how the ferocious energy bubbles up into different sounds, then a lid goes on temporarily. The ups and downs give it a narrative structure - not that it tells me a story, but that you feel it taking the shape of a progressing narrative. But honestly, I'm making it sound academic and boring, when it is actually an energising rollercoaster. 5*

For me, this is the absolute pinnacle of Third Stream, and Mingus’s greatest masterwork.

This is what ADHD sounds like when you like jazz

The perfect balance between melody and noise. 7/10 FT: Track C

There were some lulls, but, I feel like I went on a journey that I really couldn't resist. This is a jazz album I'd share with anyone looking to learn more about jazz.

I'm sorry Charles Mingus, I wasn't familiar with your game.

Ladies and gentlemen, we've arrived. I've been a Mingus Head for a while, though I hadn't heard this one. I've heard others, like Pithencanthropus Erectus and Blues and Roots. I've known this to be his big masterpiece, and I've been looking forward to hearing it. Boy, does it deliver. Just four tracks, but each incorporates so many facets of jazz and spans so many genres and subgenres with ease. I love these tracks often start out unassuming, or in a style of refined jazz that might seem safe, and then they just explode with life. Instruments are made to moan and scream, it's jarring. There's so much going on that obviously I can't process everything on one listen, but it's just so great that I know there will be many more listens to come. Immediately entering my handful of top jazz albums though, what a behemoth. Mingus is the man. Favorite tracks: All of 'em, though one highlight that sticks out is the flamenco-style guitar near the beginning of the last track, so beautiful. Album art: Pretty unassuming. The text and style is very bold, but to be comfortable with a cover this simple I'm interpreting to mean Mingus knew he cooked up something otherworldly, and he wanted to catch listeners off-guard. It worked. 5/5

I really loved this. It had elements of minimalism, with long sustained ostinatos, almost droning. The tempo and meter shifts were surprising. For a jazz album, there weren't as many solos as I would expect, but they were interesting.

A great expression of free jazz, the emotion and passion that Mingus gets into his albums is almost unrivaled to me.

v nice jazz

An amazing album of pure jazz enthusiasts who appreciate his artistry. One of the best, with Miles and T. Monk. Enjoy!

Typically when considering the greatest jazz albums of all time, the list is topped by Miles' Kind of Blue and Coltrane's A Love Supreme, while The Black Saint And The Sinner is usually positioned somewhere in the second tier. Black Saint is an excellent expresssion of Mingus' genius, though personally I think there are a few of his other albums that are a bit more accessible (Mingus Ah Um, Tijuana Moods).

Is this good jazz or bad jazz? It's so hard to tell sometimes. Plus this album toes the line by being pretty energetic and boisterous. Overall, I liked it though. So I'm going to say it's good jazz.

Really fun concept album, it was a little hard to get into until track B, but I would probably listen again. Like “Sketches of Spain” Mingus demonstrates talent but it’s not exactly catchy.

A little turned off by the farting noise in my right ear for the first minute or so but then things got nicely layered before breaking into a discordant mess then lurching into a groove where the bass really shines. It feels as if the instruments are competing against each other rather than working together. Interesting approach. Track B is more appealing--slow, languid with bursts of what sounds like something trying to catch up then coming together into a ferocious race. The rest of the album is a compelling listen--this is not jazz to play in the background while you have a cocktail and chat with your neighbor. This is jazz to play when you want everyone to leave so you can lie down and think about how much you hate them. Also, did someone say God Dammit on the last track?

these cats did in fact cook

Jazz piano has my heart

I'm an absolutely massive swing-era jazz fan --I love swing dancing-- but as jazz moved away from the swing era to bebop, modal, and other genres I kinda lose interest since it just isn't for me. Nonetheless, I found this album did work for me, even if it's a bit more experimental, although I don't see myself returning to it any time soon. Solid jazz played by solid musicians.

I like jazz music, but for no good reason, I don't listen to it so frequently. This album is a good remember that I need to listen to it more and more. An excellent album for all days.

Amazing. His 'Blues & Roots' is my favourite jazz record of all time, but this is up there.

A very interesting album. For long stretches, I also liked it very much. However, there were also more difficult parts that I didn't get on with so well. The album is certainly very good, but I probably won't listen to it again soon. 3/5

I don't think I'm smart enough to fully appreciate this. 3/5

I was pleased with the flamenco bits.

Lots of interesting themes on here, but little of it stuck. My kids quite liked it, unusual for a jazz record - perhaps because it does sound quite "dance"-oriented, rhythmic?

Mingus is great, not my favorite album of his, my personal favorite is blues and roots but this is still very good. High 3.

Saved Prior: None Saved Off Rip: None Cutting Edge: None Overall Notes: Yes that was in fact jazz. Don't know enough about jazz to really understand what makes good jazz and what doesn't. Sounded pretty good to me, but also sounded like good ol' jazz.

I really tried to find the artistic side of this album and see a way to enjoy it, but with all the respect in my heart this just felt like a pure cacophony of noise lol. It definitely feels like the soundtrack for any manic pixie dream girl of the late 50’s early 60’s. Mad respect to Mingus but just not my style.

No private session used for Spotify. I listened to this album twice, trying to get into. I like some jazz, but this goes a bit off the rails for me, it's too eclectic and admittedly over my head.

The gulf between how much I wanted to like this and how much I actually liked this was very wide. It was too chaotic and noisy for me. There are some runs I really liked, but I just couldn't get into this. I feel like a disappointment for not liking it.

Music to have a psychotic break from reality to! This is mostly just a ton of noises not in harmony. Then something cool pops up and is quickly discarded. Ultimately, my dislike of jazz got the better of me here. It wasn't totally unlistenable though, so it avoids the dreaded 1 star score.

This challenge has not been kind to me this weekend. First, Super Furry Animals—and now, more jazz. Unfortunately, this album felt like dull background music. The tracks blended together so seamlessly that I struggled to tell when one ended and another began. Track 3, in particular, stood out—but not in a good way. It had an odd, 1950s Disney-esque vibe that felt completely out of place. Very bizarre. I can’t help but wonder how many more jazz or swing albums I’ll have to endure. Favorite track: None stood out enough to pick. Least favorite track: Track 3, without a doubt. Album artwork: Nothing noteworthy to mention.

I can defo see and understand the attraction to this album and its brilliance. Its just not really for me!

Sounds like you give a preschool class some wind instruments and drums and press record. Just can't get into that stuff.

Jazz noises Is this music? They are clearly musicians, but I don't want to listen to it.

Duet Solo Dancers is one of my favorite jazz tracks

Amazing album full of surprising turns. A lovely, entertaining listen.

This is so badass before badass was a thing! Complex and beautiful. I'm no lover of Jazz, but this simply grabs your neck and slaps you to attention. If you give this a 1, you shouldn't be here. Go spend your time on MyFace and TicTac, and fuck right off!

Classic jazz album

“Stop! Look! And Sing Songs of Revolutions!" This was so good. Dark, uncomfortable at times. Brilliant

Bello, magari non il mio genere, però, però...

The angry man of jazz has conducted his masterpiece. As though he was orchestrating a ballet for the stage (he was though, as was the case, he wasn't successful), Charles Mingus uses the farthest parts of his brain to compose some of the most arresting work of his career, with a cracking band willingly pushing themselves to make the songs come to life. If one were to compile a list of jazz records to ease on into the genre, it would be a mistake to not consider The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady.

Especially for the early 60’s, this is such a mindblowing piece of music. Cacophony and catharsis, beauty and brutality. Mingus takes his already spectacular ensemble composition chops and levels them up again for this release. This is undoubtedly jazz at the end of the day (influenced by other styles, classical included), but I can see this having an impact on a number of different notable names. Not only the free jazz and fusion artists to come but noise-rock and post-rock which focus on massive instrumental climaxes. 10/10. The Black Saint is a sophisticated, unstable masterpiece.

Man, that is some jazz music. Compositional wonder, amazing playing, incredible piece of art.

This was great to listen to. Mingus brings you along through and entire jazzy story. I enjoyed this record so much, but I agree with corbobb that there’s better Mingus out there (Mingus Ah Um imo) still feeling a 5/5 on this, I’ll definitely be listening to this again. Mingus forever!

I did this album a disservice by listening to it on spotify, in my gaming chair, while playing Marvel Rivals, which is what I've been doing for the majority of these albums. This album should be listened to in a grand music hall, played by a jazz orchestra of masters, accompanied by a wonderful ballet. I feel like listening to it how I did meant I only got half the experience. Despite that, this album is a masterpiece, and it should say something that despite feeling like I did the album injustice in how I listened to it its still a clear 5 out of 5.

I really enjoyed this one, but I’ll admit it might be a lot to take in if you’re not sure what you’re getting into. It’s avant-garde jazz at its best, with a hint of Spanish flair and layers that pull from all sorts of influences. It’s almost like each layer has a mind of its own, yet somehow it all comes together perfectly.

qué increible el buen jazz

Good for what it is. Don't know much about jazz.

Some great bonery, brew kinda vibes, track c fire

This was super fun! I really liked this one. Listened to it probably 3 times.

I don’t know much about jazz but I know this album has a very cool vibe. When I listen to this it makes everything going on around me feel more interesting.

una puta obra de arte, de aquí uno puedo escuchar el sonido propio del jazz: los ritmos libres, la melodía que deambula en un centro porque aquí el caos no es desornado; todo lo contrario, es una tormenta de medianoche en un puerto de new orleans.

does anyone else remember that SNL promo where James Austin Johnson plays bob Dylan and he misremembers musical guest Chappell roan as Charles Mingus. funny stuff. Anyways this is a fantastic album. starting to get a real love for jazz through this project which I 'preciate. Almost makes up for how many mediocre albums it pushes <3

This was a very interesting listen. I found the complex, layered jazz to be so attention-catching. It wasn’t background music, it was music that made you listen hard to it. I loved the unexpected tempo changes and how the same melodic lines at different tempos gave such different vibes. I also liked the individual instrument solos including the flute and out of left field Spanish guitar. I finally understanding the term “crooning trumpet.” It sounded so much like a human voice I had to stop and make sure I wasn’t heaeing an actual voice!

This is my classical music.

Complex and beautiful.

That might be one of the best jazz albums I’ve ever heard. Hell, that might be one of the best albums I’ve ever heard, full stop.

This is such an unusual and striking, yet beautiful and deeply moving album... just brilliance. The kind of music that makes you stop what you doing and demands your full attention to intently listen and take it in. Jazz par excellence 10/10

The GOAT. No jazz album even comes close.

Amazing jazz album! Didnt have to "try" to like it. Great work vibes.

YES!!! 5

MA BOIII MINGUS HELL YEAH

This was already one of my favorites so yeah obvs it’s getting a 5

still the best jazz album ever...nothing quite like it

So I had a day in the oh so pleasant company of Charles Mingus. I started with this album, which I had never heard before, and adored it. It's going to get 5 stars. I had to listen to it a few times to let it all sink in properly. Then I went to try out "MIngus Ah Um", as many people had said it was more accessible. I liked it, but nowhere near as much as "The Black Saint...". It was a little too light for my liking. I would have probably given it 4 stars. I used to hate jazz, seeing it as pretentious music with a lot of gatekeeping and a bad reputation. I gave a few albums a try when I was in my early 20s and found them all annoying to listen to. Something must have changed over the years, as now I find myself drawn to jazz that I would have despised in my youth.

Unsettling. 5 stars.

This is good jazz.

This album was a nice surprise. I am a bit embarrassed thar as a jazz lover I had not heard this recording. It was not what I expected from Charles Mingus. I especially liked the range of instrumentation and the latin/Spanish guitar that appeared occasionally.

3rd time this week I've grown a 4.5/5 album I've already heard

as good as it gets. embraces dissonance without using it as a crutch. highly dramatic. perfect argument for the album (as opposed to individual tracks) as the unit of art. motifs emerge, withdraw, and then cacophonously barge in again totally transformed, overlapping across tracks. extracts a great deal of personality from the instrumentation, at time evoking resigned anguish, other times triumphant rebellion. has more compelling narrative structure than most lyrical "concept albums" explicitly telling a story. horns go hard. best jazz album of all time.

so good wow

Complete banger. Every instrument has so much character. Second half of Track D is an emotionally stirring journey.

Fan. Tas. Tic. I’ve always liked anything I’ve heard by Mingus, but was unaware of this. It is orchestral in its movement. So much more than jazz. The first half I listened to driving, the second half through ear buds. I have to go back and relisten so I can more thoroughly enjoy the whole thing. I highly recommend you do yourself a favor and immerse yourself in this through headphones, or at least just focus on this in a room with no other distractions. Enthusiastic two thumbs up.

Not big on jazz but I'm grateful for this project making me listen to this album. It's a stunning project with every instrument being just perfect

A frantic and furious jazz ballet, this paired perfectly with my attempt to digest a day's worth of institutionalized violence, oppression, and injustice.

Brilliant but it is like a forerunner to Heavy Metal fast noise My fave was the drumming ! What a pace

Jazzy 💃

Moody, subtle. An easier listen then most jazz

just one of the most unhinged and amazing accomplishments in the history of music. combines so many styles but always feels so natural and singular that it never comes across as one bit imitation or pastiche...mingus and co just discovered a piece that could only exist in exactly this form. the main developing motif sounds like breathing in and out with various degrees of effort, a fitting image for a record that goes so many strange places in search of pure expressionism. gets more and more emotional every listen...everyone is putting in everything they got. some of the most passionate art thats been made in any medium