The Black Saint And The Sinner Lady

Mingus? Dingus more like. This made my day worse.

I can’t claim to know much about jazz at all. Especially not avant-garde, experimental jazz like this. But I loved this album so much. It’s an album where you just give yourself over to the way the music feels. It teases you with a reprise that you think you’re familiar with, then beats you round the head with a horn section for getting too comfortable. It has moments of delicacy and beauty, and of utter stormy cacophonous noise. Putting aside the stories about Mingus (aggressive, violent bugger, essentially) it feels like these people are all playing for their lives. Quite a thing to behold

I can't. I feel like there's some 'emperor's new clothes' thing going on with jazz like this. Like, don't they see he's wearing nothing?! I keep waiting for that eureka moment when I might understand it a little, but it has yet to come. The noise almost hurts my brain, it's overbearing, dissonant, disturbing. Maybe that's the point. I don't get it.

This touched my thought while my world's affluence crumbled at his feet.

It’s good to check in on your preferences once in a while in case your tastes change, sometimes you’ll find you love something you didn’t before, or at least you appreciate it more! In this case, I’m here to report that I still hate jazz.

Personally, this is a top 3 jazz album OF ALL TIME. It's dark, unsettling, both fitting of the past and the future. Mingus had been no stranger to aggressive or dark music prior, but goddamn this record takes it to a new level. Required listening for any self-proclaimed fan of jazz. Cannot praise enough.

dirty sexy rollercoaster

i don't have to say anything about this album. jesus christ what a masterpiece. i give a lot of albums 5s, because i fucking love music, but this is a 6. it's a 10. it's a 100. goddamn.

This is like as archetypal as experimental jazz gets. Wildly changing time signatures, multiple keys soloing at the same time, crazy studio editing tricks to make it sound even more cacophonous (that flamenco guitar section though). This is one of those records that sounds like it could soundtrack On The Road or something. One of Mingus’ best. Favorite Track: Track-C Group Dancers “(Soul Fusion) Freewoman and Oh, This Freedom's Slave Cries” Least Favorite Track: Track-A Solo Dancers "Stop! Look! And Listen, Sinner Jim Whitney!" (If I had to pick one)

Very cool and very interesting organized chaos. I’m relatively familiar with other works by the angry man of jazz, but I had never actually heard this album before. The mixing and organization behind every piece on the album (especially from a pre-stereo view when the album was made) is incredible and shows that deep thought was given to the somewhat avat garde compositions. Also, the shear amount of different instruments on this album is also impressive-it feels like I’m hearing a different horn or woodwind every second-with the Piano always acting as a sort of anchor. And then a guitar shows up out of nowhere! What the fuck! Side 2 of the record (song 4) is easily the blending off all things good and unique. It’s definitely not for everyone, but if you like big band, jazz, or classical music I’d def give this one a listen.

A wonderful artistic expression. It takes you away from any thought or emotion and shows you whatever you need to feel within that small musically accompanied moment. It's absolutely incredible

Killer album. I love the low end, Bass, Tuba, Bari Sax. Just the wide variety of instruments all coming together for such a beautiful piece.

JAZZ!

This is heavy music--there's a lot going on here, and I don't think this is a jazz album to drop in the middle of a broader range of styles and say, "Here, this one is one of the best." It may be, but it's for hardcore jazzheads. I think "Mingus Ah Um" or "Mingus Plays Piano" is better for the general listener to get familiar with Mingus. This would be better suited for "1001 Jazz Albums To Hear Before You Die." Great album? Probably. Over my head? Definitely. 3/5, just because our esteemed editors haven't read the room. Including this album is just pretentious or lazy; not sure which.

To anyone that says, "I don't like jazz", I'd say, "You aren't listening to the right jazz for you then." Jazz is like a therapist -very personal and you may have to try a lot of it before you find the right jazz for you :) <> People on tv who liked jazz were portrayed as pretentious and the jazz they played in movies for those people was like listening to "Free Bird"'s guitar solo on repeat a bajillion times aka not for me AND THEN, Rachael played me a song or two on a most unforgettable road trip. It was big band music and it was stuff I had heard without knowing it (Thanks, Tom & Jerry). I immediately bought the Ken Burns Jazz 5-cd set and wore it out. <> Mingus looks like Bunk from The Wire - who wouldn't like that? ;-) <> Listening to this album, the 40 min flew by so I'd say I liked it as I search for Ken Burns collection on spotify...

Please...please...no more twenty-minute jazz songs. Please.

Track A was such a dirty, dark track. I feel like it's telling the story of the sinner lady working as a sex worker. She finishes up with her client and heads to a bar. Track B feels like the black saint and the sinner lady meeting at the bar for the first time and there is this kind of balancing act of hitting it off but also there is some friction between them due to the sinner lady being a sex worker. It still kind of has this like dirty grimy feel to it with some like happy and sexy moments in there. Track C almost feels like regret. Maybe the black saint is feeling regret from what happened the night before. The black saint starts to do mental gymnastics because he enjoyed the night but also does not approve of the sinner lady. Most of this song is him dealing with this cognitive dissonance. Mode D feels like the black saint decided he couldn't deal with the fact that the sinner lady is a sinner. He decides to ignore the sinner lady and never talk to her again. This obviously is a difficult decision for her and you can hear some mental turmoil throughout the song as he's dealing with this. This goes on for a while. He's dealing with this pain the rest of his life. I don't know if I've ever heard and album tell a story this well before. This might not be the story that was intended but it's what I heard. The instruments are acting both as the conversation between the characters and also as the background music and it does such a good job portraying the emotions felt.

This brings to mind a remark - maybe from Kevin Shields? - that psychedelia should work on the body as well as the mind, and I follow the song titles as choreographer directions, track one for a single dancer, track 2 for two, so on, though I stumble when I try to match these descriptions with what the musicians are doing. It was incontrovertibly clear to them: even when the music’s bursting at the seams, it’s in formation. The saunters and gallops are tremendous, with louche preambles suggesting they’re ultimately fornicating to pieces, which is pleasing. Also brought to mind are comminplace filmic comparisons, tolerated 30 years later by Portishead - soundtracks for unmade films. Tracks lack the repetition of and return to motif of song, closer to sound-image making, the wilder parts anticipating Morricone’s freakiest tracks. The stealth-surrealists at the Walt Disney Corporation could have illustrated this with a film that would’ve gone down equally well in vernissages and smut theatres. A friend’s eldest child is called Mingus. They’re both very cool.

Yo this jazz is HOT Big textures Bold horns Dark club sandwiched with Spanish guitar It works HOT

So many things come to mind when hearing this album. It sounds like a party gone mad. It sounds like the music is ready to fall apart at any moment but somehow still holds together. It sounds like it could be the soundtrack to some bawdy film noir. Then throughout there's moments of utter peace and beauty. I would say there isn't a jazz album like it but that's too obvious. Is it even a jazz album? There's the problem with labels. It has to be categorized somehow so that it can be placed in the appropriate section in the record bins. Very few jazz albums also feature both a Tuba and a Classical Guitar (that would be bonus points if it already didn't deserve its 5 stars but the music already accomplished that) This review could go on for a while if I went into everything that went through my mind when listening to it instead of just touching on the broad ideas in the first paragraph. It's been a few years since I put this on and I had to listen to it twice and want to put it on yet again. Thank you Mingus!

It's been a while since I binge-listened to most of the Mingus discography. I'd forgotten just how good this masterpiece is. It takes the legacies of blues and swing, distils it into wild avant-garde big band jazz, and triple-filters the liquor through classical, folk dance and Spanish guitar. It's a mind-melting achievement, which sounds incredibly fresh and urgent and unique, even after decades of being a widely celebrated record. I love how the ferocious energy bubbles up into different sounds, then a lid goes on temporarily. The ups and downs give it a narrative structure - not that it tells me a story, but that you feel it taking the shape of a progressing narrative. But honestly, I'm making it sound academic and boring, when it is actually an energising rollercoaster. 5*

For me, this is the absolute pinnacle of Third Stream, and Mingus’s greatest masterwork.

This is what ADHD sounds like when you like jazz

The perfect balance between melody and noise. 7/10 FT: Track C

I am not @ good judge of jazz or a jazz man at all. Not like I hated it, but wouldn't listen again

There were some lulls, but, I feel like I went on a journey that I really couldn't resist. This is a jazz album I'd share with anyone looking to learn more about jazz.

I'm sorry Charles Mingus, I wasn't familiar with your game.

Ladies and gentlemen, we've arrived. I've been a Mingus Head for a while, though I hadn't heard this one. I've heard others, like Pithencanthropus Erectus and Blues and Roots. I've known this to be his big masterpiece, and I've been looking forward to hearing it. Boy, does it deliver. Just four tracks, but each incorporates so many facets of jazz and spans so many genres and subgenres with ease. I love these tracks often start out unassuming, or in a style of refined jazz that might seem safe, and then they just explode with life. Instruments are made to moan and scream, it's jarring. There's so much going on that obviously I can't process everything on one listen, but it's just so great that I know there will be many more listens to come. Immediately entering my handful of top jazz albums though, what a behemoth. Mingus is the man. Favorite tracks: All of 'em, though one highlight that sticks out is the flamenco-style guitar near the beginning of the last track, so beautiful. Album art: Pretty unassuming. The text and style is very bold, but to be comfortable with a cover this simple I'm interpreting to mean Mingus knew he cooked up something otherworldly, and he wanted to catch listeners off-guard. It worked. 5/5

I really loved this. It had elements of minimalism, with long sustained ostinatos, almost droning. The tempo and meter shifts were surprising. For a jazz album, there weren't as many solos as I would expect, but they were interesting.

A great expression of free jazz, the emotion and passion that Mingus gets into his albums is almost unrivaled to me.

v nice jazz

Typically when considering the greatest jazz albums of all time, the list is topped by Miles' Kind of Blue and Coltrane's A Love Supreme, while The Black Saint And The Sinner is usually positioned somewhere in the second tier. Black Saint is an excellent expresssion of Mingus' genius, though personally I think there are a few of his other albums that are a bit more accessible (Mingus Ah Um, Tijuana Moods).

Is this good jazz or bad jazz? It's so hard to tell sometimes. Plus this album toes the line by being pretty energetic and boisterous. Overall, I liked it though. So I'm going to say it's good jazz.

Really fun concept album, it was a little hard to get into until track B, but I would probably listen again. Like “Sketches of Spain” Mingus demonstrates talent but it’s not exactly catchy.

A little turned off by the farting noise in my right ear for the first minute or so but then things got nicely layered before breaking into a discordant mess then lurching into a groove where the bass really shines. It feels as if the instruments are competing against each other rather than working together. Interesting approach. Track B is more appealing--slow, languid with bursts of what sounds like something trying to catch up then coming together into a ferocious race. The rest of the album is a compelling listen--this is not jazz to play in the background while you have a cocktail and chat with your neighbor. This is jazz to play when you want everyone to leave so you can lie down and think about how much you hate them. Also, did someone say God Dammit on the last track?

these cats did in fact cook

Jazz piano has my heart

I'm an absolutely massive swing-era jazz fan --I love swing dancing-- but as jazz moved away from the swing era to bebop, modal, and other genres I kinda lose interest since it just isn't for me. Nonetheless, I found this album did work for me, even if it's a bit more experimental, although I don't see myself returning to it any time soon. Solid jazz played by solid musicians.

I like jazz music, but for no good reason, I don't listen to it so frequently. This album is a good remember that I need to listen to it more and more. An excellent album for all days.

Amazing. His 'Blues & Roots' is my favourite jazz record of all time, but this is up there.

I was pleased with the flamenco bits.

Lots of interesting themes on here, but little of it stuck. My kids quite liked it, unusual for a jazz record - perhaps because it does sound quite "dance"-oriented, rhythmic?

Mingus is great, not my favorite album of his, my personal favorite is blues and roots but this is still very good. High 3.

Saved Prior: None Saved Off Rip: None Cutting Edge: None Overall Notes: Yes that was in fact jazz. Don't know enough about jazz to really understand what makes good jazz and what doesn't. Sounded pretty good to me, but also sounded like good ol' jazz.

Music to have a psychotic break from reality to! This is mostly just a ton of noises not in harmony. Then something cool pops up and is quickly discarded. Ultimately, my dislike of jazz got the better of me here. It wasn't totally unlistenable though, so it avoids the dreaded 1 star score.

I can defo see and understand the attraction to this album and its brilliance. Its just not really for me!

Sounds like you give a preschool class some wind instruments and drums and press record. Just can't get into that stuff.

Jazz noises Is this music? They are clearly musicians, but I don't want to listen to it.

This was super fun! I really liked this one. Listened to it probably 3 times.

una puta obra de arte, de aquí uno puedo escuchar el sonido propio del jazz: los ritmos libres, la melodía que deambula en un centro porque aquí el caos no es desornado; todo lo contrario, es una tormenta de medianoche en un puerto de new orleans.

does anyone else remember that SNL promo where James Austin Johnson plays bob Dylan and he misremembers musical guest Chappell roan as Charles Mingus. funny stuff. Anyways this is a fantastic album. starting to get a real love for jazz through this project which I 'preciate. Almost makes up for how many mediocre albums it pushes <3

This was a very interesting listen. I found the complex, layered jazz to be so attention-catching. It wasn’t background music, it was music that made you listen hard to it. I loved the unexpected tempo changes and how the same melodic lines at different tempos gave such different vibes. I also liked the individual instrument solos including the flute and out of left field Spanish guitar. I finally understanding the term “crooning trumpet.” It sounded so much like a human voice I had to stop and make sure I wasn’t heaeing an actual voice!

This is my classical music.

Complex and beautiful.

That might be one of the best jazz albums I’ve ever heard. Hell, that might be one of the best albums I’ve ever heard, full stop.

This is such an unusual and striking, yet beautiful and deeply moving album... just brilliance. The kind of music that makes you stop what you doing and demands your full attention to intently listen and take it in. Jazz par excellence 10/10

The GOAT. No jazz album even comes close.

Amazing jazz album! Didnt have to "try" to like it. Great work vibes.

YES!!! 5

MA BOIII MINGUS HELL YEAH

This was already one of my favorites so yeah obvs it’s getting a 5

still the best jazz album ever...nothing quite like it

So I had a day in the oh so pleasant company of Charles Mingus. I started with this album, which I had never heard before, and adored it. It's going to get 5 stars. I had to listen to it a few times to let it all sink in properly. Then I went to try out "MIngus Ah Um", as many people had said it was more accessible. I liked it, but nowhere near as much as "The Black Saint...". It was a little too light for my liking. I would have probably given it 4 stars. I used to hate jazz, seeing it as pretentious music with a lot of gatekeeping and a bad reputation. I gave a few albums a try when I was in my early 20s and found them all annoying to listen to. Something must have changed over the years, as now I find myself drawn to jazz that I would have despised in my youth.

Unsettling. 5 stars.

This is good jazz.

This album was a nice surprise. I am a bit embarrassed thar as a jazz lover I had not heard this recording. It was not what I expected from Charles Mingus. I especially liked the range of instrumentation and the latin/Spanish guitar that appeared occasionally.

3rd time this week I've grown a 4.5/5 album I've already heard

as good as it gets. embraces dissonance without using it as a crutch. highly dramatic. perfect argument for the album (as opposed to individual tracks) as the unit of art. motifs emerge, withdraw, and then cacophonously barge in again totally transformed, overlapping across tracks. extracts a great deal of personality from the instrumentation, at time evoking resigned anguish, other times triumphant rebellion. has more compelling narrative structure than most lyrical "concept albums" explicitly telling a story. horns go hard. best jazz album of all time.

so good wow

Complete banger. Every instrument has so much character. Second half of Track D is an emotionally stirring journey.

Fan. Tas. Tic. I’ve always liked anything I’ve heard by Mingus, but was unaware of this. It is orchestral in its movement. So much more than jazz. The first half I listened to driving, the second half through ear buds. I have to go back and relisten so I can more thoroughly enjoy the whole thing. I highly recommend you do yourself a favor and immerse yourself in this through headphones, or at least just focus on this in a room with no other distractions. Enthusiastic two thumbs up.

Not big on jazz but I'm grateful for this project making me listen to this album. It's a stunning project with every instrument being just perfect

A frantic and furious jazz ballet, this paired perfectly with my attempt to digest a day's worth of institutionalized violence, oppression, and injustice.

Brilliant but it is like a forerunner to Heavy Metal fast noise My fave was the drumming ! What a pace

Jazzy 💃

Moody, subtle. An easier listen then most jazz

just one of the most unhinged and amazing accomplishments in the history of music. combines so many styles but always feels so natural and singular that it never comes across as one bit imitation or pastiche...mingus and co just discovered a piece that could only exist in exactly this form. the main developing motif sounds like breathing in and out with various degrees of effort, a fitting image for a record that goes so many strange places in search of pure expressionism. gets more and more emotional every listen...everyone is putting in everything they got. some of the most passionate art thats been made in any medium

- ART - .... another one I'm just not qualified to "rate". -

With jazz, it’s always Mingus, Mingus, Mingus

I'm a jazz troglodyte, but I loved this album from my 1st time hearing it some years ago in college. It feels like everything I'd ever hoped for jazz to be. Simultaneously dark, joyful, catchy, experimental, powerful, and subtle. it works, all of it.

I just reached track c and oh my God.

Without a doubt, this is one of the greatest albums ever made. This album is so accessible to those less experienced with jazz can still appreciate it, but at the same time breaks so much ground and is immensely creative. The introduction of an acoustic guitar half way through the album is amazing, giving it a more latin feel in its latter half, and having an instrumenta a lot less common within the genre.

Maybe it's my bias as a try-hard bass player, but I loved this. That said, it's definitely an album that I would be reluctant to recommend to anyone who I didn't know already liked jazz.

This album is awe inspiring and is thrilling to listen to. Mingus is a great composer and I felt like each movement really told a story. Wish the list had more stuff like this.

MINGUS

Favorite Mingus.

I always find Mingus a bit "complicated" and I seldom put on an album by him. This one, I did not know. But a nice and great listening. Very clearly a 5 here!

I had it on repeat for hours

I don't really "understand" jazz. This album isn't catchy. It isn't memorable. I couldn't even hum a bar of it. And yet, it's great. You can listen intently, concentrating on each instrument, or you can put it on as background music. Wonderful stuff either way.

I had listened to this a couple of times before and enjoyed it, but never really absorbed it until now. It's not really like any other jazz I've heard before, and is an interesting blend of styles. It is a bit Avant-garde, but not in an off putting way. Very refreshing in general, and I can see how it might work as a ballet. Very emotional and dramatic, with a nice bit of resolution in the end.

General impression: visionary and amazing Detailed review: I’ll be coming back to this for sure. I’m very impressed and a little bowled over by the experience of listening to this album. It’s got these natural swells of energy, and one minute it sounds very composed and the next minute it’s off on some improvisatory flight. Definitely needs more listens to be fully digested, but I’ve heard enough to confidently give this bad boy a 5. Deeper thoughts (context): Score: 5 Number of albums left to review: 943 Number of albums from the list I’d consider “must-listens”: 35 (including this one) Albums from the list I won't include in mine: 23

Awesomness. Frogs at a waltz on vespa scooters. And then cats in pajamas enter from the left. Totally unexpected and amazing.

Another jazz classic, and this one landed nicely on a Sunday to help kick off those chill Sunday vibes I needed. Really enjoyed the blending of some other music styles in to this album, yet still keeping that Mingus’ feel. I needed this as lately I’ve had a lot of middling albums and duds.

much affection as i afford it, the big band jazz orchestra always felt wasted playing swing and 78 rpm single standards. therefore, using the thick sound of big band to make something that never feels simply pleasant, but challenging and complex, works like a cheat code on me. still, my only complaint is that, although the sound and direction of the thing is beautiful, as a ballet, it feels a bit lacking by having no choreography to go along with it. i know people make their own to go along and perform it, but i think the only thing keeping this from being an all timer is not seeing one of those performances live. who knows. maybe someone in Colorado will dare to and i'll revisit this with the proper idea of how one would move to it. God knows i'd embarrass myself if i tried.

The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady is a 1963 studio album from Charles Mingus. Mingus releases an extensive list of recordings, and The Black Saint is regarded as one of his best, and one of the greatest jazz albums ever recorded. This work was composed as a ballet, and was written for the "big band" format that Mingus was performing and recording with in the early 60s. This is Mingus' anguished and joyful picture of the world, told through his rich, textured compositions.

#2: I normally don’t expose myself to jazz but rather enjoy it when I do. This album was a great listen for me. I like that it’s not too long and it has enough variation between tracks to give me some break between listening. The ensemble of instruments over the four tracks adds a layer of character to each track that makes them unique to each other. One track you have a little guitar, some you have flute and piano. It really is a great array of sound. Track D seemed like a great culmination of the previous tracks, but that could just be me guessing. Would definitely like to add this one to my vinyl collection and want to hear more jazz like this.

11/03 yeah this is very cool!

The vibiest shit I ever heard.

I really enjoyed this one, but I’ll admit it might be a lot to take in if you’re not sure what you’re getting into. It’s avant-garde jazz at its best, with a hint of Spanish flair and layers that pull from all sorts of influences. It’s almost like each layer has a mind of its own, yet somehow it all comes together perfectly.

If you didn't give this album five stars I'm not sure this whole music reviewing lark is for you.