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From the book 1001 Albums You Must Hear Before You Die.

Superfuzz Bigmuff

Mudhoney

1988

Buy At Rough Trade
Superfuzz Bigmuff
Album Summary

Superfuzz Bigmuff is the debut EP and first major release by the Seattle grunge band Mudhoney. It was released on October 20, 1988 through record label Sub Pop. The album was later re-released in 1990 in the form of Superfuzz Bigmuff Plus Early Singles.

Wikipedia

Rating

2.91

Votes

10374
Genres
Rock
Grunge
Punk

Reviews

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Fri May 07 2021
5

My wife hated it, the neighbors complained. 5 stars

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Mon Apr 19 2021
4

Nirvana similarities. Like Nirvana, The Stooges and early californian punk all rolled into one. These guys were just before Nirvana too, so seems like they paved the way but then Nirvana did it much better. This feels like a 4 just because it clearly was paving the way and I'm surprised by how much I enjoyed it.

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Tue Jul 20 2021
4

Listened to quite a lot of Mudhoney (and other roots grunge like Screaming Trees, Dinosaur Jr. etc) back in the mid 90s. It deserves points for the energy, the consistency of execution, and how foundational it was to the development of this particular sound... Though it’s a sound I’m not all that interested in listening to anymore.

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Thu Apr 22 2021
4

When protogrunge is better than 90% of grunge. Great big classic

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Wed Apr 26 2023
4

Another big muff! Who's muff is bigger, Mudhoney or John Martyn?? I wanted to learn more about Mudhoney's muff, and in doing so I fell down a Wikipedia rabbit hole. But it turns out, rather than beavers and pie, I learned a lot about distortion pedals. Because the Univox Super-Fuzz and the Electro-Harmonix Big Muff Pi (π) were pedals that were instrumental (get it?) in shaping Mudhoney's sound. Ok, I guess I did learn about π. But not pie. It was pretty cool to learn about how the technology for distorting and dirtying a guitar's sound evolved over time, from deliberately misused and broken amps to fuzzboxes that do some kind of science-y stuff to sound waves that I don't fully understand. I may not understand just how the fuzzbox distorts those sound waves, but I do love the sound it creates. My formative music-appreciating years were in the early 90s, so grunge and its reliance on fuzzy, growling, and gritty guitars have a warm place in my heart. And grunge's early 90s boom is thanks to the groundwork laid by Mudhoney, Green River, and Soundgarden in the early days of Sub Pop Records. For as influential as early Sub Pop was in shaping that genre, it's surprising that the 1001 has only 2 Mudhoney albums and the only Soundgarden album is their most mainstream major record release. There would be no Nirvana without Green River and Mudhoney. There would be no Pearl Jam without Green River and Mudhoney. But beyond Nirvana, grunge doesn't get enough love on the 1001. Not British enough, I suppose. Mudhoney isn't my favorite grunge, but "Superfuzz Bigmuff" played a crucial role in launching Sub Pop and the genre to national attention.

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Wed Jul 21 2021
5

Everything about this is perfect. The cover. The opening guitar. My slightly unreliable memory of seeing them live in Wolverhampton around this time

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Fri Aug 18 2023
3

I never quite got this band. There's some pretty good songs but also a healthy dose of "Yeah, that's okay I guess." I always suspected that they got the attention they did was because Cobain was a big fan. Not bad but there's a ton of other albums that I'd rather listen to.

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Thu Jan 20 2022
1

Survived 5 tracks. That’s quite enough to know this scream fest is not for me.

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Sun Jan 30 2022
5

80's grunge always hits the spot for me, so raw and gritty and fun. This formative release was a perfect little snack to start the morning.

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Tue May 11 2021
4

Great driving hardcore-punk infused, proto-grunge, garage/noise rock. Can obviously hear the influence on nirvana, soundgarden and grunge. Had some of these songs on mixtapes as a teenager, love the riff in "In n Out of Grace". To be picky, they are missing the catchy choruses of the more successful grunge bands, and I don't love the singer's nasal tone. Generally feels really visceral and angry, and would have been great live.

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Fri Dec 03 2021
2

Much better than expected. Never heard of these guys before, but glad I got a chance to hear their music. 2/5

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Sat Jun 10 2023
2

There's proto Nirvana in here. But it doesn't hold up

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Fri Oct 08 2021
1

There's a lot of noise and shrieking on this album. I suppose I understand why some people would think it's great, but I'm not one of those people. I wouldn't listen to this again if given the choice. 1 star.

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Wed Jun 16 2021
2

Comment tu vas justifier ça Robert ?

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Mon Sep 28 2020
5

!!! amaze. Definitely see where nirvana got some of its inspiration from!

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Tue May 11 2021
5

I really enjoyed this album. Really grungy.

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Mon Dec 06 2021
5

mi primer correo era mudhoney arroba algo punto com. es una obra maestra de estupidez post-adolescente como el mejor rock and roll siempre lo es.

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Thu Dec 16 2021
5

Lekker!!! Vroeger toen ik nog het idee had om gitarist te worden wilde in een superfuzz en een bigmuff als effecten. Wat een geluid. Uiteindelijk werd het een “Power-rat” pedaaltje (om het verhaaltje compleet te maken)..

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Mon Mar 07 2022
5

Bad ass album! Truly ahead of its time. The birth of grunge?

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Thu Mar 24 2022
5

When this was first released it changed everything (well, musically). It's still awesome

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Fri May 20 2022
5

Banging debut from one of the best bands to emerge from the Grunge period.

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Sun Nov 06 2022
5

A two hour and 15 minute ep? Really good! 4.5!

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Thu Nov 10 2022
5

Awesome. Raw guitar tone, high energy.

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Wed Dec 07 2022
5

Grunge before they even had a word for it. This EP is a mind blowing revelation that will pave the road for the next big rock and cultural movement of the 90's. It will inspire some really great bands for sure.

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Thu Dec 22 2022
5

Abrasive, the kind of music you need when you're pissed off. The production fits perfectly. I listened to the EP + the singles. If I Think is fucking genius. 5/5

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Fri Jan 20 2023
5

When I first saw this album was over two hours long I thought fucking hell these guys have some ego on them then I started listening and saw it was Punkrock and then I loved every moment of it

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Fri Feb 10 2023
5

Regardless of the mutations that the structure of Superfuzz Bigmuff has gone through (six track EP to 14 track full length to two disc deluxe edition with live shows and radio sessions), one thing remains consistent: this fucking rips. With this release, Mudhoney set off something massive and ultimately set that stone for what the next several years were going to be for not just their label but for their hometown and the genre they've birthed. Without this, it is quite impossible to fathom what the landscape would be like and it looks very bleak indeed. Probably bad, perhaps worse. Thankfully, it's not the case. In any way, whether an EP or an LP or a 2 CD set, Superfuzz Bigmuff is required listening for the starting point for grunge.

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Wed Apr 19 2023
5

The time of some of the albums that come on this list is just evil sometimes. Mudhoney are playing their First show in Sydney in 9 years tonight. I decided not to go months ago but bam, this comes up and I regretting the fact I'm not going. Seeing them at the Bondi Pavilion at the tail end of 1990 was one of the best thing to happen to me at stage of my life. Most of what they played is from this album which to me is still as blistering, and fresh as on that day standing just behind a sun burnt drunken mosh

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Tue May 30 2023
5

Hammer (Mini-) Album der Grunge-Ära. Rotziger Garage Rock/Grunge, aber trotzdem melodiös. Zwischen 4-5. Ich gebe 5, weil es einfach herausragt.

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Wed Jun 21 2023
5

Slightly aggravating to figure out how to listen to this. Originally released as an EP in 1988, then re-released as an album length compilation including the songs on this EP (although in a different order) and early singles from the band. The only thing available on streaming services is a 2+ hour deluxe edition which has yet a different tracklisting order than either of the first two releases. Reading interviews and such, it seems like Mudhoney has been asked about it a bunch as they seem pretty adament that they consider this their first album, and that they consider the designation between EP and LP to be pretty arbitrary. With that in mind I chose to listen to the 6 song 22 minute original "EP" releaes for this. This album definitely rules and rocks. Mudhoney were the best grunge band in that scene, and that should not come as shocking or surprising to anyone anymore. And like most bands from that scene, their first release was their best. It's the most urgent, raw and true to live representation for them. Just a great recording as well to capture that spirit.

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Fri Aug 18 2023
5

Wow, did I need this today. "Superfuzz Bigmuff" is the debut EP and first major release by Seattle grunge band Mudhoney. The album was recorded in Seattle on the Subpop label with producer Jack Endino. The album title was named after the band's two favorite guitar effects: the Univox Super-fuzz and Electro-Harmonix Bigmuff. It initially sold poorly but was later acknowledged as a seminal record in the Seattle grunge scene. Guitar strumming as band kicks in opening "Need." Mark Arm's throttled vocals. A dirty sound with the guitar and music sounding very Stooges' like. Nirvana was in the room. There's so much he needs, he bleeds. The band goes punk on "Chain That Door." Fast-paced thrashy drums. A churning guitar. "Mudride" is slower, grungier. Steve Turner stretches those guitar strings. Here's the grunge and heavy feel. A wah-wah and distorted guitar layering: still my beating heart. There's no place to hide as he takes you on a mudride, baby. "No One Has" is back to fast paced. Great drumming and off-key guitar chord notes. "If I Think" starts off slow. It takes off and we got that soft-loud-soft thang goin.' It ends in Southern rock fashion. Why not? The last song "In 'n' Out of Grace" is just straight thrash metal basically. A Peter Fonda eulogy open from "The Wild Angels." More wah-wah and distorted guitar layering. This a pounding, great album. No halfway on this. They fuse the Stooges, Jimi Hendrix, punk and early-to-mid eighties thrash metal into something their own. Great guitar. Arm's lyrics and vocals are edgy (hell, the whole band is edgy), chaotic and strained. He's lived a rugged life and his plans are not to change. Put this record on now and wake your neighbors the fuck up. Tremendous album cover too.

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Fri Oct 13 2023
5

Oh yeah, great album. Obviously the album that influenced nirvana, pearl jam, all the grunge bands.

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Thu Nov 02 2023
5

Wasn't really into grunge back in the day, but that was more due to high school clique biz than anything else. Yeah, this slaps! Was gonna say 4.5 but due to its influence on a lot of stuff I now like, and the fact that more listens will surely deepen my affection, I'll round up. This entry makes me want to stick Robert Dimery with TWO pins. Firstly for picking an EP (or a compilation, either is annoying) for the list, and secondly because it's made me realize there's no Melvins on the list, and arguably they were even more crucial to the birth of grunge. Fave tracks - "In 'n' Out of Grace" from the original EP, with honorable mentions to "Need" and "Mudride" - "Sweet Young Thing Ain't Sweet No More" if we open it up to the 1990 compilation, and "Here Comes the Sickness" if we're using the 2008 compilation!

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Fri Nov 10 2023
5

4.5 YAY screamy noise! some of these songs sound very soundgarden, which makes sense as i'm sure mudhoney were very musically inspring to them. i really like this, it's inspired me to make a fun grungy playlist. some songs felt a little samey, but this is a genre in which i don't particularly mind - if/when i listen through this album more times i'm sure i'll be able to distinguish between songs more easily. favourite(s): halloween or you got it, although the first track was such a strong opener as well. very good stuff.

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Wed Dec 13 2023
5

Era exatamente o que eu precisava, guitarras que moldaram o grunge.

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Thu Jan 11 2024
5

I was 16 when grunge hit, and I still think that living through the 90s as a late teen / early twenty-something was a great time, possibly only beaten out by the mid-late 60s. I didn't catch on to Mudhoney at the time, but I knew of them, but listening to this really shows where grunge came from. So much of the energy, anger, garage-bandness clearly influenced much of that scene a few years later. This brings back memories of a good time, even if the music is (mostly) new to me.

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Thu Jan 18 2024
5

Big, *dumb* riffs. But god, are they fucking good. You can easily hear what was emerging from the Pacific Northwest on this, especially shades of the likes of Soundgarden. I hesitate to use the word "bro-y", but I do get, for lack of better description, party vibes off this. It's the evolution of punk rock, *soaked* in beer. It's fun, it's dumb. Bang your head. Favorite tracks: "Mudride", "If I Think", "In 'n' Out of Grace"

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Fri Jan 19 2024
5

I'd heard of Mudhoney, mostly for "Touch Me I'm Sick", but hadn't listened to anything else. I was a bit bothered about the 2 hour runtime of this album, then found it was a re-release with a bunch of other stuff, and the Spotify one was the deluxe album, so even more. The 1001 book entry on this was about the original 6 track version, so I listened to those tracks first, then had the deluxe one on in the background. I really enjoyed it, will listen again. I can see how they may have inspired the more popular 90s grunge scene. Probably should be a 4, but yesterday it's a 5 for the raw punky energy.

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Fri Jan 19 2024
5

Had heard of them but never listened big angry sound. Loved it.

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Fri Jan 19 2024
5

Sounding very similar to Bleach era Nirvana, this is a propulsive album full of passionate back of the throat vocals, distorted fuzzy guitars, throbbing bass lines and machine gun drums. That late 80s early 90s grunge scene was an awesome period in rock and this is a perfect example.

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Thu Jan 25 2024
5

I really dug this album. I listened to it all the way through twice. It felt somewhere in between the glam metal of the 80s and the grunge of the 90s. Right up my alley.

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Sun Jan 28 2024
5

Magnífico de principio a fin.

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Fri Feb 02 2024
5

Dude, I think your guitar is broken. But man it sounds kewl. Punk into grunge. Pretty music is out. Crooked sounds. Energetic tempos. Off-kilter is the new normal. I'm sick (but don't you wish you were too). Subversiveness is required. Irony. Incorrectness. Society might want to cast us out but we've already left. Attitude must be expressed at all times. This is where we stop making electric guitars try to sound like acoustic ones. Fuzz, wah, feedback, elctronic fracturings are part of the desired sound and being used as core music components. Disaffection as a way of being in the world. The ultimate in dropout from "standard culture." Get drunk. Get wasted. Get fucked.

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Wed Mar 13 2024
5

If primus was punk and less weird lol. I liked it!

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Fri Apr 09 2021
4

Ich finds geil und liebe den Sound, die Hits und die Attitüde. Dreckpunk, Proberaum, Heroin, Power, Amerika. Sehr ambitioniert ist das natürlich nicht, aber wer Touch Me I'm Sick und Mudride an zwei Enden einer Platte packt, darf dazwischen gern auch mal bisschen stoppeln. Und schon aus Prinzip kann ich hier nicht weniger geben als für Pearl Jams Ten.

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Wed May 12 2021
4

Не, саундом пропёрся. Сразу прям захотелось уши через звуковуху подключить. Покачивает, покачивает. Вики бы не написала - я бы даже не особо выкупил, шо цэ гранж. При оценке альбома возникает вопрос занимательный. Не "А судьи кто?", а "А судить то что?". В оригинальном EP всего 6 треков, в итоге 22,5 мин. А в современном издании эти 6 треки помещены внутрь дополнительных. Ещё и второй диск присобачен. Я угарну, если кто-то в рамках этого движа вместо 6 треков будет 32 слушать, лол.

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Wed May 12 2021
4

ну во-первых как постоянный юзер биг маффа хочу заявить, что строить весь альбом на этом звуке — максимально хуёвая затея. Его для ритма и не используют почти, он же ватный сильно, да и для соляков звук как-то недокрутили. Если уж делать звук с ним, то используя какую-нибудь грелку, меня например тащит подрубать его через боссовский турбо дисторшн. Но ладно, цэ всё лирика. Во-вторых — песни на этом альбоме просто на пять голов выше всего, что я слышал от мадхани до этого. хз, может они так скатились в будущем, но ожидал я вообще другого. Это-то ну. норм. даже очень. Как для пост-хардкора — вощще конфетка. Как для гранжа — ну чутка хаотично и мелодики не хватает порой, но влияние на того же Кобейна очевидно. Как для 88 года — передовая нахуй музыка. Вокалист просто зверюга, тащит энергетикой через эти фуззовые стены и долбящие ударные. Трек Hate the Police — вообще один из самых впечатляющих вокальных перфомансов, что я когда-либо слышал. Mudride тоже где-то близко валяется. Композиционно не откровение, конечно, но определенные треки радуют. Для меня небольшой проблемой стала так называемая Ear Fatigue — «ушная усталость», когда под конец альбома уже так много этого фузза и однообразного звука, что физически устаешь это слушать (я гонял полную версию, ясен хуй). В общем для своего времени — ништяк, для нашего — детский доктор, группа когда-то была горяча, 8/10.

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Thu May 13 2021
4

May have been the template for grunge, but it's possible to make poppier, hookier songs without selling out.

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Mon Jul 12 2021
4

Yet another surprise for me. This one grabs me immediately with big noise. It follows up with fast and medium hard sound that really keeps me interested. For '88 this seems like a really groundbreaking album.

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Tue Jul 06 2021
4

This dirty, messy garage punk makes me want to buy another Big Muff pedal. This album was fun, and short enough that it didn't outstay its welcome like some bands like this

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Mon Jul 05 2021
4

Punk-rock en estado puro. Buen disco, buen estilo, un imprescindible de esta lista.

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Fri Jul 23 2021
4

definitely grew on me. some songs were too similar and repetitive but the screaming and guitar were kinda additive. cool name x

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Wed Aug 18 2021
4

Another solid album that rocks hard. Early grunge. A few great songs, especially toward the end but not consistent throughout. A 3.5 but will listen again so I'll bump to 4

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Sun Sep 12 2021
4

Nice proto-grunge. Grunge is my favorite genre and this is one of the early trendsetters. I can totally hear Nirvana and Soundgarden here. Good album.

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Sun Oct 03 2021
4

Really enjoyable, liked it more than most grunge i've heard due to the great energy and dirty sound.

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Sun Oct 03 2021
4

Focused rocker. I didn't realize EPs were included in this list

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Sun Oct 17 2021
4

Decent grunge, especially the last song. 7/10

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Sun Oct 17 2021
4

I liked the later mudhoney better, but this was a solid angsty garage rock EP. 7/10

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Wed Oct 20 2021
4

I believe that this is the pure definition of a very historical album that sounds "simple" or "old" because of so many things it influenced after its release. The songs are great and the spirit is pure 90's grunge.

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Thu Nov 11 2021
4

Straightforward, short, but oh so tight. The closer clinches it, stretching out without losing the edge that has been honed by the other five tracks.

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Fri Nov 19 2021
4

The 1990 version includes some awesome songs, but I decided for the purposes of this review I'm just looking at the 6 songs on the 1988 release. I wasn't big on grunge when it first broke through, so I think really listened around bands like Mudhoney at the time. I suppose that's fine, as I don't think I would have much appreciated them at the time. But man, these guys are great. They're the only band I can think of that consistently embodies the raw energy of groups like the Stooges and the MC5. This is some stellar proto-grunge that burns with a ramshackle energy, with some furious guitar work and hard driving drums. The vocals by Mark Arm are some of the most blistering and I have heard. I like the contrast between slow burn and straight up rage he does in “If I Think.” Following it up and closing it out with the high energy “In 'n' Out of Grace,” and that’s a pretty compelling group of songs. It makes me want to hear more. Fave Songs (1988 version): In 'n' Out of Grace, No One Has, If I Think

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Thu Nov 25 2021
4

This just blew the cobwebs right away

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Mon Nov 29 2021
4

Quality feels like it’s recorded right off the floor. I’m a clean sounding kinda guy but this is gritty and I dig it. Loved Rape Me.... I mean Need. (Oof another lifted riff for Cobain & Co.) Fave tracks: “in n’ out of grace” “need”

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Wed Dec 08 2021
4

Some classic tracks from my youth on here. Always worth a listen even though some tracks take it down slightly from a 5.

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Mon Dec 27 2021
4

Grunge incarnate - squalling guitars, fizzing with sass

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Thu Jan 27 2022
4

Grunge visceral, pero con buenas melodías. Fuerza sobre el escenario

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Sun Jan 30 2022
4

I love how RAW this album was, but God it was rough to listen to for long. Overall good experience though.

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Mon Feb 07 2022
4

2/6/2022 Today's Album: "Superfuzz Bigmuff" by Mudhoney - I think this is one of the most influential albums for the 90s. Coming out in 1988 and predating the entire grunge movement, this band shows off a lot of talent and innovation. The groany vocals and and slightly detuned guitars that would define the grunge rock takeover in the 90s are all over this record and are well executed. This album is messy, but controlled and there are a lot of diverse ideas on the record, even if the instrumentation stays pretty similar throughout. Some songs sound like they're made for the mosh pit and some just fit that crying-alone-in-your-bedroom vibe and I think if you look at Nirvana and Pearl Jam, which to me are the closest in comparison to this group, you'll find a very similar aesthetic. It seems that the movement sort of took off without these guys, which is really a damn shame since they were such pioneers of the genre. I don't really know if I am totally on board with grunge music, but I have to say that if you're even just tolerant of hard-rock and metal, you'll appreciate this album or at least enjoy listening to it while it's on. It sounds like the exact transition point between the hair metal that ruled the 80s and more subtle grunge rock, with plenty of chugging 80s guitar and bass lines on tracks like No One Has, but also slowed down grunge beats on tracks like Need and If I Think, both of which sound like Nirvana songs before Nirvana existed. In 'N' Out of Grace and You Got It are absolutely crazy tracks and I like them a lot. I think there are a lot of songs on here that are just sort of forgettable or just don't leave a big impact, but the good parts are really great and there weren't really moments where I didn't at least half-like what I was hearing. I think it's definitely worth it for those who like music with an edge. Score: 7.5 Angsty and Grungy Highlights: Touch Me I'm Sick, Need, If I Think, In 'N' Out of Grace, You Got It (Keep It Outta My Face)

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Wed Feb 09 2022
4

Grimy as hell and I love it. Rougher than the big 4 grunge bands. 8/10

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Thu Feb 17 2022
4

The linear progression of punk to grunge and everything outside and in between is demonstrated well by this list

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Fri Feb 18 2022
4

4, pretty dope grunge, a lot of good tracks

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Sun Feb 27 2022
4

Punk-grunge ochentero. No está mal. Un 4.

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Sun Apr 03 2022
4

Garage grunge/punk type sound. I'm into it

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Sun Apr 10 2022
4

A ton of exciting tracks with plenty of energy held back by some strangely lifeless ones.

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Fri Apr 22 2022
4

So today we're reviewing... *checks random word generator* ...superfuzz bigmuff. Giving this 4 stars just like the other Mudhoney album we got. They're both super decent, hard-hitting, fun & dirty grunge albums. They might not be quite as catchy as Nirvana, but otherwise not all that far behind.

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Wed May 11 2022
4

I tried getting into Mudhoney several years ago before seeing them open for Pearl Jam. It was a little too raw for me then. But now I have a better appreciation for heavier and rougher stuff, so this was good.

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Mon May 30 2022
4

Punk-grunge ochentero. No está mal. Un 4.

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Sun Jun 12 2022
4

The missing link between Iggy Pop and Nirvana.

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Sun Jun 12 2022
4

Large, dirty guitar sounds. The relentless in-your-face fuzziness strikes me as ahead of its time.

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Wed Jun 15 2022
4

Not normally a grunge fan but actually quite enjoyed this. Somehow it seemed a bit bouncier and playful than, say, Nirvana. I liked it in the same way that I like early Sabbath - the band revelling in the noise they can make. The lyrics weren’t terrible either, from what I could make out. I think the original 22 minute version of this is probably enough for one sitting, but I left the Deluxe edition running just to hear their version of Halloween. Good stuff.

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Wed Jun 29 2022
4

If you lookup 'grunge' music you'll likely be presented with the usual suspects - Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Alice in Chains and so on, and in many cases struggle to hear what they meant by 'grunge' sounding - however, stick this on and Touch Me I'm Sick leaves you in no doubt what they meant. This is a great album that makes no apologies about being rough around the edges, gnarly sounding, and even the album artwork you can imagine being stuck together using glue sticks and Sharpie pens.

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Sun Jul 17 2022
4

Bring the scuzz, properly dirty. Lovely. In N out of Grace is epic

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Wed Jul 20 2022
4

Big influence on the alternative scene. Honed yum sounds and a loose style to make a pretty good album

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Wed Aug 10 2022
4

While the band name looked familiar, I wasn't at all familiar with their music. Overall this was a rocking album and I will be going back and checking out more of their catalog. Also sweet album title!

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Mon Aug 15 2022
4

The guitar riffs are sick. It may be an issue with the spotify album but 2 hours of many of the same songs was a bit too long. The core songs are phenomenal, though.

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Sun Sep 18 2022
4

I was surprised by how good this one was! All the songs were pretty much on the same level for me so it's hard to pick a stand out, but if I had to, I'd pick Dead Love.

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Fri Sep 30 2022
4

The deluxe version was the only version on Spotify and the 2:15 hour runtime definitely scared me so I only listened to the original 22 minutes at first. It was an interesting mix of post punk and pre grunge that definitely captures a weird grey area of rock like this in the late 80s. Regardless, this was a 3/5 but once the original tracks ended I wanted to keep listening to the whole deluxe thing so I suppose that bumps it up to a 4

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