The Black Saint And The Sinner Lady

A whacko. No doubt there are some impenetrable corners and unassailable walls for simpletons like me, but they're far outnumbered by an eccentricity and playful abandon that's only obtuse if you choose to let it be.

I'm just not a jazz man. so don't ask me.

Apparently this is an all time great jazz album, with elements of classical, African and Spanish music, and genius orchestration. Unfortunately, my jazz ear is not fine tuned enough to recognise any of this. It sounded ok-ish, but a bit of a cacophony in places. Rating: 2.5/5 Playlist track: Track A – Solo Dancer (Stop! Look! And Listen, Sinner Jim Whitney!) Date listened: 08/07/22

As always with Mingus, interesting from beginning to end.

Nice jazz fast and flowy, a bit screechy and sanctimonious, but has the mood

Improv jazz has always been a bit of a mystery to me. Listening to this I had an urge to take up smoking and to start hanging out with men in dark turtle neck sweaters. Parts of it sounded like a soundtrack from a swinging 60s movie. There is a lot of talent evident here but ultimately, it's not my bag baby.

Took a while to hit its groove but really interesting, fantastic musicianship.

A bit too freestyle for my liking.

Jazz clássico com improvisações que cria um clima interessante.

not my type

I liked it!

As far as jazz goes, this is pretty good background music

Reminded me why I love good jazz.

My first Mingus, not as good to me as Miles Davis' "Kind Of Blue" but that's a hiiiggghhhh bar to pass. Great if you like jazz, terrible if you think jazz is meaningless noise

enjoyable jazz but sometimes it got a little weird sounding. i do appreciate the subtitles for each movement, because it definitely added to the overall experience. mingus had a vision!

I assume this is considered "avant garde jazz" due to the mixture of jazz and classical stylings. The songs themselves are even arranged in and structured like classical movements rather than modern music tracks. When listening to classical works, my ear always gravitates towards the piano, and I really enjoyed Mingus's piano playing on this album. The brief, added Latin flair that was dabbled here and there was a nice surprise that I also loved! I'm still not finding myself to be much of a jazz fan, though! I think my overall enjoyment was rooted in some of the more out-of-the-box moments and less around the jazz itself. Still, a worthy listen!

Great morning album especially the 18minute ending tune

A powerful and sublime piece of music. Pushes the boundaries of jazz

Just the best jazz album ever

I think this is awesome music and should be required listening. I don't know how Mingus was able to pull off the combination of styles with a free jazz vibe, but he did. At times it sounds like a soundtrack, at times an avant-garde troupe playing live. A magnificent suite.

Ambitious and impressive but hard for me to emotionally connect with. He’s obviously a talented musician.

This makes me understand why people enjoy Charles Mingus so much and is often listed as so influential.

Jazz with a story throughout.

Well, it's an album requiring a correct attitude from the listener. First time I played it as a background to work and it felt tiring, screechy, loud, cacophonic. Second time I gave all my attention to music, and it was absolutely worth it. Beautiful melodies, calm passages combined with virtuosity and stellar performance of all artists. Magnificent.

Niestety miałem okazję przesłuchać tylko raz, a zdecydowanie powinno sie wielokrotnie, żeby docenić dowolny album jazzowy. Wydawał się agresywny i dość chaotyczny, ale nie gubił. Dodatkowo wstawki i licki to w mojej opinii definicja stank jazzu.

This one is definitely not for me. Cover art 4 out of five

I feel supremely unqualified to comment on any jazz album's quality relative to another's, but I will say that out of all the jazz I've listened to for this project (including Bitches Brew and Kind of Blue, among others), this is by far the most interesting. It's innovative in all the right ways and it sounds like more than just a music theory exercise. Plus they included a contrabass trombone! Who the hell does that? An unexpected joy. Best track: Track C - Group Dancers [(Soul Fusion) Freewoman and Oh, This Freedom's Slave Cries]

I want to give this 5 points just for the name MINGUS. But it's experimental jazz, so 3/5.

Challenging but still pleasurable. Ellingtonian in a good way, though darker and more discordant, and maybe outright sexier, too.

Enjoyable random jazz squawkings. Some really cool stuff, and you can see where a lot of prog bands were ripping stuff off.

The 60's were a wild time to be a part of the jazz scene. Bebop, established in the 40's out of necessity to contrast the big band boys, had grown into hard bop in the 50's with an influence of blues melodies. Then the 60's came around and we can see the need to break down the walls of conventional jazz rules, a way to start reinventing the genre; Charles Mingus has always been at the forefront of this. Mingus plays by his own definitions of jazz along with Ornette Coleman (not featured on this list) to bring a new experience to listeners. The Black Saint And The Sinner Lady is a crowning achievement of Mingus and Avant-garde jazz as a whole. It's theatrical, progressive, and beautiful all in one package. Truth be told, this is an album that should be wholly experienced, with art and liner notes. Additional, this is a successful blend of jazz and classical that is never boring or excessive. I don't know how else to talk about it other than encouraging you to really listen, with more than just your ears, and visualize this album to the best of your ability.

Jaaazzzzzzz. Men inte den jazz du vill ha i bakgrunden under en vinig middag på en rökig bar. Den sorts jazz som tar sig in på djupet och påverkar allt omkring dig. Avantgardistisk jazz som stressar upp dig för att sedan lugna ned dig, i nästa ögonblick förvirra dig när latinamerikanska gitarrer kommer in från vänster, och som slutligen får dig att vilja explodera av känslor och intryck när trumpeterna trummorna basen ökar ökar ökar tills det inte finns någonstans att ta vägen. Fantastiskt.

Mingus schmingus Got quite noisy near the end. Kept thinking it would get better.

A little too free for my taste, but still a great time.

From the start this is wheezy, aimless, painful to listen to. Like an orchestra tuning up for half an hour, yet all seemingly out of key with each other. It's stuff like this that gives Jazz its terrible reputation. Moments of Track B and C almost have a tune but then seem to lose interest like a puppy with ADHD. It's not for me.

Yes!

This is dramatic, fire jazz. Playing on disruption, it throws me about, shifting tempo and style. Sometimes gentle, but never languid, and then a full acoustic assault, broke with moments of flamenco. Not what I expected, sometimes uncomfortable, always genius.

I think I like this. One of the more early takes on creating art out of music outside of classical, and it ended up being very enjoyable. Chaotic, but good. Favourites: "Solo Dancer", "Duete Solo Dancers"

En formato de trompeta, y algún instrumento más, canciones instrumentales sin más. Nada de vocalización. Imagino que para muy entusiastas. Personalmente no me ha supuesto nada escucharlo

Latin music really turns the elevator-ish jazz into an explosive monster. I felt every note in this album. The struggles and build-up of the drums, the wailing of the violins, the Tom and Jerry-ish flow of the wind instruments... All of these sound so chaotic and human. And because of that, every second of this is such an adventure. That's the epitome of a musical experience. This is probably how jazz sounds to jazz fans. Not a boring, lengthy musical fiddling but an experience beyond words. I'm not a big fan of jazz, but I freaking love this bad boy.

Crazy shit Love a lot of it, gives me major Taxi Driver vibes. 3

Jazz for jazzmusikere. Burde hørt det live på en bar, og ikke på jobb. Noen gode sekvenser, men litt støyete.

jazz eller rass? Rass.

It was ok. A little more chaotic in parts than the jazz I like

Not for me.

I feel like JK Simmon's character from Whiplash would wind down for the night listening to this exact album.

I’m sure it’s probably good, just not my cup of tea.

I really enjoyed this and I know it really good jazz. I wish I knew more about jazz and/or listened to more of it. It's like a black hole in my music knowledge. Although as a trumpet player I played it plenty and of course loved that.

i dont understand the point of jazz besides setting an ambiance in a film or something, this one is alright i guess not too fancy last song is quite intense

Jazz op de vrijdagochtend. Apart album met track A t/m D met als laatste een lengte van 18+ minuten. Ow, wacht, ik moet naar de muziek luisteren. Niet zo mijn ding, maar niet slecht, denk ik. **

far too much jazz in this baby for me to handle.

Where's Maddie, SHACK?

I'm not the biggest jazz guy (although I used to love watching Tiny Boop Squig Shorterly and Roy Donk on the Colgate Comedy Hour). However, this was pretty cool. There was a bit much going on during some parts, but overall pretty nice. Quite a mix of styles. 3 stars.

I didn't even begin to get this until one time I listened to it up close on headphones. Even so, it's another one of those albums I admire from some distance rather than particularly like as such; orchestral/big band jazz has never been my thing at the best of times, and if I need a Mingus fix I'd much sooner go for Mingus Ah Um.

Beautiful!

New music and a new artist for me. I have listened to a limited amount of Jazz, and I have wanted to re-listen to only a small portion of what I have listened to. Mingus' album was too cacophonous for me. I did not enjoy this album.

An absolutely amazing jazz standard. There is so much going on - just melodies weaving in and out of each other. Absolute classic

I like this!

Pretty dense but pretty good.

pretty cool start to finish

As expected, Mingus took me on a journey. Some good places, others pretty dark. The musicianship on display here is amazing in ways I would struggle to express, so I'll take an easy cop-out and just give it five stars.

Nice, I love short big sounding jazz

slapper of the highest order, first song is madness

Interesting

Good album, need more listens to appreciate it.

I've never really enjoyed Jazz, but this kept drawing me back with interesting rhythms and sounds and phrases.

Jazz melangiós i intimista, podria ser la banda sonora perfecta d'un film noir clàssic

Frantic. A very dark, cacophonous record. I appreciate the one brief reprieve of the flutes, but the addition of the flamenco guitar was a little jarring. Intense. Favorite track: "Group Dancers"

This is one of my favorite jazz albums. Mingus here is at the top of his game, experimenting and innovating. It is a total ride.

I mean, I like jazz, a lot, but this is a lot to take in. A little overwhelming.

Jazz, Free-Jazz, Big Band, Gute Musiker, Anstrengend, Etwas ziellos, Etwas langweilig

Just made me anxious

Un bon album jazz qui derape un peu mais quand meme... 3

4.75

From the first few notes, I knew I would like this album. Great jazz sound. Cacophony broken by melody.

I was looking forward to this, never having knowingly heard Mingus before. But this just washed over me, and nothing jumped out from it. I guess I just don’t really ‘get’ jazz.

It was a bit of a racket tbh. Did me head in.

Those orchestrations are miraculous. No one sounds like Mingus and his blend of experimental big band, classical music and the so-called world music. Most importantly, he kept pushing the jazz genre forward while still bopping hard. This album is a testament to his genius.

I was peer pressured to give it a 4

Great jazz, by great jazz man

I think this is now one of the best jazz album I've ever heard. The arrangements are incredibly brilliant and ahead of their time. The sounds of each instrument are used in an original and unexpected way. I want this album on vinyl now.

This just made me very depressed both times listening. I get the musicians involved are talented and you would have to love avant-garde jazz to some degree, but I just couldn't get on board. It also didn't help every song sounded exactly the same except for an added focus of a particular instrument here and there. It's a bit like eating the same meal for breakfast, lunch and dinner with each serving having one different ingredient.

It's a jazz album. There is no singing just instruments. It is better than some of the previous jazz albums on this list but I would still not listen to it again.

Free form jazz, or jazz that sounds free form, isn't something I enjoy. The fourth and last track on the album was my favourite. Didn't add.

So energetic and vital, really lifted my spirits. More like this please.

I admire the brave vision of scale and structure in this album, but when it comes to jazz, I tend to like smaller arrangements where individual players are easier to isolate. I can definitely see this album working well as the soundtrack to an avant garde dance performance, as was the supposed intent, but it's not something that I'd really want to listen to on its own. I'm definitely more of a "Mingus Ah Um" fan.

I like it. I feel like any good Jazz is almost always at least a 4 for me. I especially liked Track B where it sounded like he was almost singing through the horn while also playing it, very cool effect.

Ok

This album is stunning, a jazz masterpiece in everything that made jazz unique in the early 1960s - a single composition that stars almost like a ballet and evolves to become very experimental, with an eleven piece big band working in full synergy to deliver something unique, with a beautiful orchestration. Mingus' piano sounds amazing, and his double bass is also out of this world. There's nothing like The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady.

I know the name but have never listened to any of his stuff. Never heard this before but it's really nice. I'm always slightly amazed at how crisp and clear all the instruments sound in the classic jazz albums. On first listening, 4 stars, but could be higher with more time

A woozy opus.

I find jazz a mite tricky to write about, an issue I suspect I share with many. How do you dissect it entertainingly without either splatterings of empty words conveying the square root of sod all or acres of minutiae about unorthodox time signatures and tonal clusters that also convey the square root of sod all? Can you just write "it sounds nice" or "it sounds bad"? Anyway, this sounds nice. By "nice" I mean bold, intricate, formidable and singular. Of course, with such an experimental piece as this, the listener is required to be open-minded, but that also implies that it's rather your fault if you don't get this. I'm happy with that conclusion.

Good soup

Mingus? Dingus more like. This made my day worse. 👍

A high point in jazz music

Nalla vill inte ha sås, noll A1

Väkevä! 4/5

Mingus on aina hyvä, ei siinä sen kummempaa.

Kuuntelin vasta torstaiaamuna, niin olipas sopivan intensiivinen säestys Ukraina-uutisten lukemiselle. Ehkä vähän liian blast, että kotisohvalla noin muuten kuuntelisin, mutta livenä tämmöstä ois huikeeta seurata. Hienoja kyllä ne väleihin tippuvat rauhalliset melodiset hetket.

Pitäis varmaan kuunnella uudestaan. Ei kovin vaikeaa ja aika jees jazzia. Laitetaan 3/5

Instrumental jazz.

Not really into jazz but found this surprisingly engaging. 18 minutes is too long even for a wig out but i'd listen to more Mingus

I appreciate the ambition and artistry involved, but this was all too rich for my blood. I need to give Mingus a fairer shake. Just not with this album.

No

One of the best albums of Mingus - not much too add, other than this is a great album.

Well, this probably went over my head. The better passages reminded me of the Taxi Driver soundtrack, but otherwise I found this pretty much unlistenable.

Only four (very long) songs. Still not my thing, but I can certainly appreciate the skill of the musicians involved.

Azong jazz album. Honestly it did feel a bit busy but the more I focused on individual instruments the more I enjoyed it

I enjoyed it. At times it feels like a bridge between big band and cool jazz, like the former is melting and the latter is emerging.

Very interesting jazz. 8/10

Wild, shifting time signatures that sway back and forth all over the place. An abrasive clash of styles and emotion on an album that is edgy and sprawling, but one that majorly swings and is sleazy as fuck.

Some unusual jazz, will definitely be revisiting this one

Haven't had too much jazz yet. I enjoyed it.

In contrast

A fun improv jazz album that hits harder than most on this list so far. The Spanish influences and melodic echoes throughout the track (especially the anthemic closer) bring this one to a new level and give it a bit of staying power.

I didn't find this unbearable which is unusual because I despise almost all jazz music. Good background music for a nice quiet cafe or bar.

3.5

Who doesn’t love some absolutely fire classic jazz?

Molto affascinante e sperimentale. Mi piace.

I can appreciate it but I wouldn't listen to it

It’s jazz so I have not really any interest… Veryyy long sings that I did not pay attention to…

Reviewing as mostly a jazz novice, I like this quite a bit. I briefly studied Mingus in college and enjoy instrumental jazz infinitely more than vocal - this has an interesting continuity to it, definitely worthy as a full-album listen rather than any one of the tracks by themselves. The only part I don't love personally is the flamenco-ish parts in the final suite - it's just not a favourite style for me - but musically it's still impressive how the band can transition from one section and one genre to another so well. Funny note at 5:25 of the final cut, listen for someone (Mingus?) yelling "goddamnit" in the right channel :D 8/10 4 stars

Man this complicated jazz thing again. I really want to like it, but half the time I think it's emperor's new clothes and they're having a laugh at everyone who says they like it. I'll keep trying though. I hate being out of the loop.

This artist and album is completely new to me, though I'm somewhat comfortable with the genre. The baritone sax on track one put me off for the first 30 seconds but pretty soon I was grooving along to the darkness. I see what Track B was going for but to me it didn't quite get there. Track C starts so melancholy and downright pretty. I did not see the flamenco coming. I'm more or less hypnotized by the time the opening bass notes of the medley grab me and shake me back to my senses. The medley is a lot to take in, but for sure the feeling is delicious the times the melody resolves in the direction you want it to. I see the genius of these tracks. I am in awe of the musician's knowledge, confidence, and ability to play together to actually pull it off with such grace and power. This is next level stuff. That said, these tracks and emotions are best revisited sparingly and I don't really want to give them a home in my daily life. This album is no warm bubble bath, if you know what I mean.

really good, love the inclusion of a guitar

Charles Mingus' epic ballad combining jazz and classical music in an orchestral setting titled 'The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady' released in 1963. This album is in fact one continuous composition divided into four tracks and six movements. Mingus' masterpiece is one of the most acclaimed jazz records of the 20th century, and has also been described as the greatest achievement in orchestration by any composer in jazz history. The music tells an amazing story over the course of the album from an enchanting jazz orchestra. I recommend everyone to lend an ear to this interesting piece of music history.

This guy's wikipedia page is a wild ride, he sounds like he was an immature unbearable ass. The music is okay, but it's not something I would seek out. Mingus the Dingus indeed.

Reminded me of ‘Kind of Blue’. Definitely one to revisit.

Enjoyed it

Stunning. Unlike anything I’ve heard before. Completely absorbing. Such depth, such intensity, such reshaping of the world through music. Towering achievement.

versatile, storytelling jazz.

Now that's what I call jazz.

Liked this. Good background music for work but was also interesting enough to keep me entertained. Might be something I would listen to again.

Perfect.

Massive energy throughout, still sounds innovative, full of positivity and dynamics. Fabulous

Stunning. Heavy. The best album recommended to me so far.

Invoked an Untouchables type vibe, slick.

Probably the best jazz album we've had so far - I just need a bit of structure and order to my jazz.

I'm an absolutely massive swing-era jazz fan --I love swing dancing-- but as jazz moved away from the swing era to bebop, modal, and other genres I kinda lose interest since it just isn't for me. Nonetheless, I found this album did work for me, even if it's a bit more experimental, although I don't see myself returning to it any time soon. Solid jazz played by solid musicians.

Not Mingus's best album, but still an easy five stars.

Chill jazz

I feel like I would appreciate this more if I was a lot smarter and smoked a pipe.

jazzy wazy

OK, good music, but I'm not that into Jazz

Goed coor op achtergrond

jazz baby, goed voor op de achtergrond en altijd genieten maar nu niks next level imo

good one !

only 4 songs that’s powerful xx very jazzy but i don’t think it’s actually that good couldn’t finish it but it’s okay

Not totally bad, but goes a bit random jazz on you during most tracks, so not my bag baby!

Groovy

Liked it until song 4, a little too erratic for me

This was pretty amazing. Very different from the usual collection of songs. It was absolutely jazz, but it really felt like listening to a classical composition with its length, movements, and unity. I sometimes struggle with recorded musical improvisation (not so when it's a live performance), but I never felt that with this work. A lot of recorded jazz sounds tedious to me, but this never did. I think being presented as a unified work actually made it more listenable as it progressed from movement to movement, repeating melodies here and there, and introducing Spanish guitar when it was ready for it. It's hard to compare this to a pop collection of songs. This felt a little more work to listen to, but it was really good, enjoyable work, and I so appreciated the opportunity to experience it.

I have certainly heard of Charles Mingus before, but I am not aware of being familiar with any of his music specifically. This is not generally a type of music that I enjoy, and I found this album within my range of listenable. I found the tracks theatrical. I can imagine dancers on a stage conveying a story as I listen. There were some stretches when I didn't appreciate the sounds of the story, but then it would bring me back. So, I have respect for what is happening on this album, but it won't go on into my everyday-listening rotation.

This was a rather dramatic soundtrack to my rather ordinary day. Evocative and cinematic, this album tells a story, going from smoky and sultry to mildly frenetic to romantic to grandly theatrical in a short 39 minutes. Not all jazz does it for me but this sure does. Love it.

This one is tough for me to rate, as I have very little experience with jazz. Going in I knew I was really out of my element here and ill-equipped to understand (let alone rate!) an album like this. The first time through I pretty much tried to get my bearings. It was clear that I was listening to some really talented musicians who were really putting it out there. I loved the low saxes, muted trumpets, tinkly piano even though I was often unsure and at times uncomfortable with what was happening musically. But even on that first listen my novice ears found moments of delight, like when the Spanish guitar would jump in. I listened to this a few more times and on each listen I had moments where I was having flashes of just flowing along with the music. A few times this occurred during the cacophonious passages and suddenly something highly structured surfaced and felt like a revelation. I shouldn't be surprised that listening to my first orchestral jazz album is challenging. This isn't an album I could expect to play in the background or even relax to right now... I still have a lot of work to do first. I've added this to my music library as an aspirational act in the hopes that I will do more work on this album and with jazz in general. Rounding this one up to a 4 although I'm hoping some future version of me will want to change it to a 5.

Ich hab Respekt davor, es ist aber wirklich nichts für mich.

Stunning

amazing wow

magnificent, ambitious and mystical

I dont really feel "qualified" to judge this album as I've never been a big jazz guy. However I know what I like, and I like this.i will definitely come back to this one again.

Loved this record!

This is dope 🎺👌

8/10

Clearly skilled musicians, but I found it hard to consume. Do I like this kind of jazz? I don't know if I value the right things to.

So, it's funny we listened to this after the Brubeck album. Whereas the Brubeck album seems very clean and prepared, this is very experimental and out there. I know that's what Mingus was going for, but that last track, man... wow. It is definitely something I was not prepared for. I heard a lot of interesting things which, I think, with a number of listens, will go into something rewarding. But on the first listen or two, I can see people saying "what is this?" It reminded me a bit of early Zappa, very free-flowing. I liked what was there, but it's definitely not "safe" jazz. This is some dangerous, out there material. Definitely something that you have to listen to a few times to "get."

I think I was spoiled after the last jazz album. This one is fine, but I found the brass section squeaky. I'm sure that was what they were going for on Track A and B but it was a bit much for me. Track C was marginally better. Track D was solid; I could've done with just that.

So many things come to mind when hearing this album. It sounds like a party gone mad. It sounds like the music is ready to fall apart at any moment but somehow still holds together. It sounds like it could be the soundtrack to some bawdy film noir. Then throughout there's moments of utter peace and beauty. I would say there isn't a jazz album like it but that's too obvious. Is it even a jazz album? There's the problem with labels. It has to be categorized somehow so that it can be placed in the appropriate section in the record bins. Very few jazz albums also feature both a Tuba and a Classical Guitar (that would be bonus points if it already didn't deserve its 5 stars but the music already accomplished that) This review could go on for a while if I went into everything that went through my mind when listening to it instead of just touching on the broad ideas in the first paragraph. It's been a few years since I put this on and I had to listen to it twice and want to put it on yet again. Thank you Mingus!

I had a viscerally negative reaction to this album on first listen. Discord. Chaos. Any time I found myself enjoying it, these intruded. I started writing up a very negative review while listening for a second time, debating whether to give it 1 or 2 stars. At the same time, I started reading up about the background and intentions of the album. About Mingus' life, his anger, his experiences with racism, his illness and death. I found myself appreciating Side 2 (Modes D - F). It still had much of the discord and chaos that was making me uncomfortable, but I could at least appreciate the mastery and composition and the moods it was meant to evoke. I went back to the beginning of the album, closely listening with new ears and started to recognize why this is considered a jazz masterpiece. By the time I returned to Modes D - F, now truly focused on the music, I was blown away. This is a challenging album and clearly isn't background music like so much jazz - it demands attention. It demands struggle. It's worth it and I stand corrected.

Amazing jazz concept album. The idea behind it was to write the album as if it was a ballet and I can absolutelly hear that. It's not an easy listen but very much well worth the time.

Well. That was...music?

8/10

8/10. Jazzy and good.

Got just about everything right. I’ll be coming back to this. 10/10

Listened in the car. I'm not sure it was actually this album since Spotify seems to be bugged but...it was nice.

I think this is the most pure "jazz" I have ever listened to. It is - a bit tough. Not particularly smooth, but generally interesting. I do not care for it a ton halfway through, will see if the final two songs move me more. I have listened to them all a couple times now and it is growing on me a bit. I dont know how much I would want to listen to it, but I am starting to enjoy it more

I'm a big fan of Charles Mingus. For me, he is a pillar of jazz music. This album is...fine. I think my biggest issue is the recording of the tracks. The mix seems a bit off. These are songs that I would have loved to hear live, in order to give the whole album a fair shake. As is, the album sits in the good not great category for me.

Remarkable, emotional and uplifting. An amazing album that keeps surprising. The ending is a bit too much though.

Jazz. Eh.

Not my vibe, but if I was a middle aged man in 1963 I would vibe heavily to it

It's hard to say 'Mingus' without thinking of that thing that women like. Maybe he earned that name from the ladies. His real name is Bart, but that's not very sexy. Girls at the club would see him from a distance and whisper with their lips "hey 'Mingus...'" Then wink slyly before taking a sip of a Martini and looking down at their skirts. Oh yeah, go ahead Bart. Tickle those ivories.

A lot of this feels improvised, but apparently it is actually very deliberately arranged. This big observation probably belies my general ignorance about jazz music. As with other jazz we've encountered on the list so far, I enjoyed it but don't feel equipped to properly evaluate it. (This is somewhat true of a lot of non-rock related genres. And there is a relatively small amount of jazz on the list to compare and get acquainted with. Also none of it is recent jazz, which I find interesting. And then that got me thinking about the complete absence of classical music on the list, and I wondered what Mrs. hell-yeah thought about that.)

I liked this a lot more than I thought i would.

I’m of the opinion that improvisational music should be played, not listened to. That is all.

1/5 it got annoying at some point.

The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady is a fantastic avantgarde jazz album. I understand that it is not for everybody, certainly not listening to it for the first time. So just give it a try and after a few spins you will understand that it has a lot of quality.

Pretty good sounds. I liked it.

Shouldn't have listened to it as a background for packing but overheard some great bits

I guess it is a taste thing but I really did not like this.

Debauched jazz; runs the gamut of emotions while being sonically perfect. Fuckin a.

very nice, and also not something I'd ever listen to again. does that make sense.

Didn't enjoy this. 1/5 stars.

Honestly liked it more than Coltrane. Would revisit

The Wikipedia article for this one sounded really promising. The musicians are without a doubt talented and the compositions multi-layered and multi-faceted. Yet, I found this album really difficult to listen to. There's a lot of dissonance going on, making the album very jarring and distracting during work. It's a good example of how technical prowess isn't enough if the music is inaccessible.

It might be the great, but it's jazz

just too jazzy

4.5 | Hace muchos años aprendí qué son los Ostinatos en la música gracias a este disco. Solo hay realmente dos discos de Charles Mingus así que supongo que el otro no estará aquí. En mi opinión este es mejor, es su obra mejor lograda, tiene un sentido entero, dirección y un fondo conceptual sólido. El problema puede ser que llega a ser demasiado densa y si no se tiene conocimiento de las notas que acompañan al album puede parecer un monton de música improvisada sin sentido, a pesar de todo creo que incluso cuando no se lee el acompañamiento se puede sentir la calidad de música, la prevalencia obviamente de ese contrabajo y por supuesto la parte que creo es más famosona, cuando todo se vuelve una guitarra española por un instante. Si lo comparamos con Bitches Brew por ejemplo, tenemos un disco que por muchos años le gana a Miles, se siente menos experimental en algunos aspectos, menos "free flow" que el otro, pero muchísimo más denso y con contenido. Entendible a quien no le agrade, en realidad es un disco que exige atención y el tiempo pero que repaga con creces.

No sé apreciar el jazz. Este disco me gustó, no se me hizo pretencioso y fue fácil digerirlo la mayor parte del tiempo. Muchos sonidos graves con los metales le dan como un ambiente muy nostálgico. Siento que a diferencia de otras piezas de jazz, el hilo conductor es relativamente más claro en estos temas y creo que eso hace que sea más fácilmente digerible. Songs: Track C

3.5 que sube a 4. La cosa con el jazz es que hay muchísimo que oír y no todo es para todos. Creo que este es el tipo de jazz que me puede gustar en ciertas situaciones y más como de fondo. Aunque entonces no prestas suficiente atención a la abundancia de detalles y calidad que tiene la ejecución. Por otro lado, este tipo de jazz me es cansado para oír con toda mi atención, tal vez también por la abundancia de detalles. Creo que el punto que más me gustó fueron esos momentos en los que entra una guitarra y trompetas con sonido español, la calidad de los metales, y (concentrándome para oírlo con claridad) el doble bajo de Mingus.

Not necessarily my usual listening but very melodic and talented playing by the band. A nice change.

hard to listen too. Maybe I'm not cultured enough

The arrangements throughout are a mish mash in a good way of jazz, classical, Spanish and African themes. It feels very improvised, something you may hear at a jazz club, quite nice as some background music. No best or worst as the entire album feels like a collective that should be treated as a whole.

Holy shit, two jazz albums in a row! While I liked the Keith Jarrett album I got yesterday, I fucking love Mingus. His songs just pack so much furious energy into every measure. Captivating from beginning to end 5/5

Not my genre so hard to judge, but I like what I heard.

Pretty good jazz album.

Очень экспрессивно и множество диссонансов создают очень необычную атмосферу, за которую так любят джазовые джемы.

Wel bijzondere jazz maar ik houd niet zo veel van jazz

Incredible. What a journey - through a city, through a mind. Not \"listen to it in the background\" music.

excellent! but I am biased towards this genre of jazz.

Wild and adventurous.

Fart trumpet at the beginnng... Is it me or does a lot of jazz sound like 4 guys got into a groove and don't know how to wrap it up?

Meh

It's been a while since I binge-listened to most of the Mingus discography. I'd forgotten just how good this masterpiece is. It takes the legacies of blues and swing, distils it into wild avant-garde big band jazz, and triple-filters the liquor through classical, folk dance and Spanish guitar. It's a mind-melting achievement, which sounds incredibly fresh and urgent and unique, even after decades of being a widely celebrated record. I love how the ferocious energy bubbles up into different sounds, then a lid goes on temporarily. The ups and downs give it a narrative structure - not that it tells me a story, but that you feel it taking the shape of a progressing narrative. But honestly, I'm making it sound academic and boring, when it is actually an energising rollercoaster. 5*

Not really pleasant 2.5/5

Vika biisi jäi kesken. Ei koveta

Uuh, meni täydestä torstaiaamuna kahvia juodessa sohvalla. Jätti hyvän fiiliksen ja päivä voi starttaa!

Very cool and very interesting organized chaos. I’m relatively familiar with other works by the angry man of jazz, but I had never actually heard this album before. The mixing and organization behind every piece on the album (especially from a pre-stereo view when the album was made) is incredible and shows that deep thought was given to the somewhat avat garde compositions. Also, the shear amount of different instruments on this album is also impressive-it feels like I’m hearing a different horn or woodwind every second-with the Piano always acting as a sort of anchor. And then a guitar shows up out of nowhere! What the fuck! Side 2 of the record (song 4) is easily the blending off all things good and unique. It’s definitely not for everyone, but if you like big band, jazz, or classical music I’d def give this one a listen.

Very good jazz, fire

Struggled with this as it's not really my thing, the final track was the easiest to listen to

Rating: 7/10

Mingus? Dingus more like. This made my day worse.

For me, this is the absolute pinnacle of Third Stream, and Mingus’s greatest masterwork.

Raw stuff, on the higher end of the Jazz spectrum, the only thing keeping it from a five was the sonic wall at the end that was absolutely exhausting to listen to for that long

I have to confess I don't really know the right setting for listening to this. It gets pretty hectic and intense in parts, so I can safely say it's not for work background music. I might need a tutorial on how to properly enjoy it before listening again.

Really enjoyed listening to this. I appreciate the viewpoint that some of the instrumentation didn't 'mesh', but for me, it worked overall.

Well, now, that was certainly interesting! At times, it gets a bit chaotic for my listening, but I have a feeling upon multiple listens it starts to make more "sense" (yeah, yeah, I know: music -- especially jazz -- never needs to make sense...I'm talking about making sense to me in my experience of it and relation to it). Regardless, it's a wild ride and there's a LOT going on. I'll need to hear more of his work.

Not the jazz that I can listen to

I have tons of respect Mingus and there’s clearly some talented playing going on here but this is the type of jazz that I feel like I really don’t understand

Basically the perfect Jazz album. Technical.

The only Jazz album I've ever listened to. Not bad for background noise, but I doubt I'll be buying tickets to a jazz show anytime soon.

One of the great jazz records.

I'm listening to this as the only person in my office on a Friday that is gray and rainy out. This, album is perfect and its impossible to pause or walk away from it once you start it. It's hard to pick a favorite track, but that closing medley is a hell of a tune.

Listened to it for a bit but not the whole thing. Enjoyed what I made time to listened to.

sick jazz tunes 🎶

Jazzy

https://www.theguardian.com/music/musicblog/2010/sep/03/charles-mingus-black-saint

this sum jazz, wowee, I def prefer big band stuff but this is pretty good

4

Was not bad. Just not my style.

4

Jazz with a 60's vibe.

It was okay.

Thankfully it was short. Jazz is not my thing.

Wish I had more to say. It's really good.

I really loved this. It had elements of minimalism, with long sustained ostinatos, almost droning. The tempo and meter shifts were surprising. For a jazz album, there weren't as many solos as I would expect, but they were interesting.

Really well put together Jazz, enjoyed this one.

Interesting - at times smooth, sultry, dissonant , languid, frenetic. The blend of styles in the highlighted track (big band -> flamenco) is great.

Great Jazz, a great listen

First time listening: 4/4 songs liked Now, this album is a jazz trip for sure. Didn't ideas melding together in its cohesive titles and movements, this one is way more efficient in its use of length despite its only 4 song repertoire. Wouldn't save any songs, but it's definitely worth a listen. No songs saved

Cool stuff, not sure I could listen to it as much other than background music but I liked it. Kind of all over the place saxes, sounded like movie music from the 60’s.

Extremely tedious to listen to. Definitely nothing you would listen to in the background as I can tell from firsthand experience. Very saxophone/trumpet heavy. Never really gave Jazz a chance. It's not bad per se but I can't seem to dig it much. Maybe it's cause I have little to no exposure in terms of Jazz, but I can't let myself "fall". With my favourite kind of music there usually is this one chord progression, instrument swell, this one part of the vocals paired together with some lyrics that moves me emotionally. This is a whole different beast. I can acknowledge that this is probably good Jazz and there are interesting ideas. However, it is not made for my ears - as of now at least. (In parts it sounds like what I imagine would be the soundtrack of tooth ache if it had one, lol.)

Feels like I’ve got a turtle neck on smoking a cigar and drinking wine with this one. Very particular mood but I’m into it.

Grandpa would've loved this!

🎷

🎷🎹🎺

Don't understand freeform jazz. I've tried - I even went to a jazz club specially to try it. Had a great time but not because of the jazz.

I enjoyed it

Chaotic Jazz

Very enjoyable. Orchestral jazz. Often steady bass, drums, strings, and brass rhythms underlay with lively trumpet and piano overlay with periods of all-in exuberance. There is a lot to pay attention to. Short album (40 minutes), but you pick up more when you listen to it again (and again!).

Mingus: jesucristo.

So lost in it’s own cleverness that it forgets to be even remotely interesting.

I feel that if l live in the 60s, I will appreciate this.

Boa trilha sonora para Marvelous Mrs. Maisel

Crazy ass jazzy trip

Not as memorable as kind of blue or love supreme, but nice for sure.

Put it on and listen. Masterpiece.

Schwere Kost!

Am Anfang Zuviel big band aber dann wirklich virtuos mit den spanischen gitarrenelementen wie ein anspruchsvolles Western ballet

Orchestra Jazz with drums, piano but without voice

Pretty good, definitely in my area of jazz that I can enjoy. Solid background music with some intense portions. Kind of hilarious that the review on the blog highlights "don't expect to get anything else done while listening, this is as far from background music as it gets." Guess I completely missed that part.

Jazz. Not my style. Rinse. Repeat.

Some very nice brass playing although at times self indulgent as Jazz appears to me

Didn't like abstract side 1, but side 2 with flamenco guitar and repeated melodies was good. Reminded me of 1950s cinema and the Taxi Driver soundtrack.

Really good! Listened to while working out. A bop. 5/5

Sounds interesting

groovy as all hell

superb - already want to listen to this again with a proper sit down

Not my thing

Really enjoyable Jazz/Blues experience unlike most others i'd had!

This was pretty good - I don't really listen to jazz but I enjoyed this. He has a cool name too

Saved Prior: None Saved Off Rip: None Cutting Edge: None Overall Notes: Yes that was in fact jazz. Don't know enough about jazz to really understand what makes good jazz and what doesn't. Sounded pretty good to me, but also sounded like good ol' jazz.

I might listen to again if I came across it, but probably won’t go looking for it.

Personally, this is a top 3 jazz album OF ALL TIME. It's dark, unsettling, both fitting of the past and the future. Mingus had been no stranger to aggressive or dark music prior, but goddamn this record takes it to a new level. Required listening for any self-proclaimed fan of jazz. Cannot praise enough.

Musica de filme em preto e branco com cena de saguao de hotel

Wow, I loved listening to this. Interesting to have 2 jazz albums so close together. I greatly prefer this style to Kind of Blue, personally.

What can be said about this album that hasn’t been said already? It’s a perfect album. 5 stars. Just beautiful, lively, haunting, full of emotion. Recorded beautifully.

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Something about this didn't work for me. Perhaps it's a horn / woodwind overdose. There are frequently one or more  horns and woodwinds soloing concurrently and also having to  compete with  multiple horns / woodwinds  blowing out the rhythm. This forces the soloists to go out on a tangent to be heard which exasperates the situation. I get that these are excellent musicians and I really like the few minutes where only one horn / woodwind is playing. I just find it a challenge to listen to most of it.

This was chillen

Suurin osa listan levyistä tulee kuunneltua työpäivän taustalla. Jazz on hyvin hankalaa taustamusiikkia, koska se väkisin työntyy etualalle, eikä tee sitä mitenkään siistillä tavalla, vaan enemmän symbaaleja paukuttavan leluapinan ärsyttävyydellä. En saanut tästäkään levystä mitään otetta, eikä se oikein vienyt mihinkään tunnelmaan muuhun kuin ärsytykseen. Punkkupullo, vaaka-asentoon sohvalle ja sama levy kuulokkeilla korviin, niin olisi varmasti aivan eri peli. Toki miksei sitä noin voisi tässä palaverien lomassakin yhden levyn kuunnella ja lasillisen tai kolme juoda. Annoin Coltranen Johnille ykkösen, niin tämä levy oli yhtä hyvä.

no sé nada de jazz.... k sé yo, un 4.

Jazz. No words. Kinda lame.

It’s a no from me.

Sopivalla tempolla olevaa jatsia. Vähän siinä rajoilla, että onko turhan taiteellista. Biisien nimet viittaa tanssiin ja tavallaan tähän voisi kuvitella jonkinlaisen nykytanssiesityksen. Ainakin taustamusiikkina tämä oli miellyttävää, mutta ehkei sitten kuitenkaan ihan se oma juttu.

Feels more like a musical texture than a story. Has a general dreamy-nostalgic mood.

No estoy preparado para valorar un disco así.

A cacophony. When everyone is doing their solo at the same time, then nobody is doing a solo. "Goodbye Pork Pie Hat" by Mingus, is 10x better than every track on this album, but it's not on this album.

right down my ally

I didn't dislike _The Black Saint and The Sinner Lady!_ I think the key was that I had it on in the background while I was trying to figure out how to Blender something, and it was over before I really knew it. I'm not really into modern or avant jazz like this- my jazz jams basically end at the end of the 40's, with the death of big band and swing jazz. I think if everything was more coherent, it would have been better, but it's obvious that's not where they wanted to go with this

Murzynski swiety i grzeszna pannica jest to chyba jeden z najbardziej popularnych materialow Mingusa, czyli najbardziej wkurwionego jazzowego grajka w historii, nie bez przyczyny mowi sie wkurzony jak mingus, ktory potrafil na scenie pogruchotac swego basa tylko dlatego, ze wsrod publicznosci znalazly sie osoby ktore utrudnialy wystep, wynika to pewnie z perferkcjonizmu muzycznego do jakiego dazyl mingus, nie byl on tylko muzykiem, ale przede wszystkim kompozytorem oraz liderem bigbandowym, cos jak byciedyrygent i kompozytor w jednym, wiec sam albumik jest 39 minutowa kompozycja, ktora z zalozenia miala byc baletem, stad nazwy trakow A B C, solo dancowanie, duo, grupy, zagrany w 11 osobowym bandzie, zastanawia mnie jak mozna dojsc do tworzenia perfekcyjnych improwizacji bebopowych rozpisanych niczym symfonie, podczas nagrywania overdub musial byc mocno uzywany, ale granie nadal ma w sobie to cos co sprawia, ze mzyka wydaje sie byc zywa, bopowe zmiany tempa na 11 grajow, wut, wsrod skladu bandowego kojarze tylko 2 nazwiska Byarda od klawiszy oraz Richardsona od fletowania, ale po przesluchania bede musial sprawdzic Wiliamsa od trabkowania, glownie za ostatni track na plycie, ciezko wybrac co wrzucic na plejke, wiec wrzucam calosc, bo niezbyt czesto jakie jazzowania sie na 1001 albumiarzu pojawiaja

3/5