Reviews (page 4 of 7)
3.7 - Never thought I’d describe a metal album as “quaint” but that’s the first word that comes to mind. Others have noted the plodding pace, the overblown guitars, the crude drum fills and the cliched satanism. But it all comes together in a solid package that I enjoy. I especially like the quieter moments (“Buried Alive”) that add a touch of murky atmosphere.
This is the reason why, in the ‘80a, any heavy sounding music was labeled as Satan worshipping. I just wanted to listen to Motley Crue, Def Leppard, Kiss, and Poison. Anyway, yeah this sounds silly and amateurish, but weirdly entertaining at the same time. This is far from the worst thing on the list. I would actually listen to it again.
As an 11-year old, a friend was singing a dirty song whose lyrics had the refrain "Teacher's pet". I didn't know what artist made this song, and didn't think about it again until I heard it in this album. So it's a bit like using Soundhound or Shazam but the lookup taking about 40 years to finish. Anyway, the album is one of those "origins" albums that set the stage for a lot of bigger, arguably better acts to come. So credit for that, but overall I'll take those bands over this one.
I don't like metal and was hopeful I'd understand it more through this project. Up until now, I've been disappointed with the metal I've come across. This one differed some and has me remaining hopeful. To me, I hear the roots of hard-core or thrash, which moves things closer to punk, a raw energy genre I do like. So, I higher rating than the other metal I've heard, though not enough to relisten to the album.
generally not my favorite genre but this was a fine listen
80s metal was basically ripping each other off all of the time. I can see why this is on the list because Metallica copied their entire style, but then Heavens on fire is almost identical to Ace of Spades (and I think the latter came out first). This must be why the genre sounds so samey. This album was fine, basically a Metallica album, maybe slightly more over the top with the satan theme. Influential without being an essential listen id say, 2.5.
Would say this is light thrash metal. Lyrics are daft but generally enjoyed the sound, was humming along a few times. Nightmare and Teacher's Pet were my favourite songs. Plenty of double bass drumming.
Never heard of venom before.... Would call this thrash metal more than anything else I think? I didn't mind it at all. My main complaint is that the whole "black metal" thing just feels like a gimmick. For shock value type thing. I bet it was pretty shocking at the time? Let's see how many evil things we can include.... The devil, being buried alive, heaven being on fire, hell, satan, war with god...zzzzzz. I actually did think the music was quite good though in parts. Reminded me of early Metallica. 2.5, but 3 because I felt it hard not to head bang to quite a lot of it
Grew on me as I got more into it. Very silly. A bunch of silly billies singing songs.
I don’t usually hear metal that sounds this rough and low-fi. It sounds like it was recorded in a garage. The songs are pretty unpretentious too. Fast riffs, over-the-top growling, the usual brimstone and hellfire in the lyrics. Nothing too memorable but it was enjoyable.
Black Metal and Buried Alive are bangers but the rest of this kind of sounds the same to me. I will say I'm impressed by how fresh it sounds, it doesn't sound that dated that all and could easily be a new metal release today
I had very low expectations for this but I liked it, it wasn't too weird or obnoxiously heavy. I would listen to snippets of it again, however the whole thing is too long so it becomes monotonous. Stand-out: Bullet In the Head
Speeding up Black Sabbath inspired riffs, setting the stage for the new wave of British heavy metal, and laying the groundwork that 80s thrash bands like Metallica and Megadeth would (IMO) perfect.
I thought this album was going to be a lot scarier than it actually is LOL. This is basically Metallica. I like it so far. Makes me think of a slightly more metal-ish Black Flag. It's got that punk sloppiness.
Pretty solid for one of the first metal bands ever. Good riffs, cool drums- the singers voice isn’t my fave but what can be done
Not my style, but not terrible.
I can see the massive influence this album had on a lot of the music i listened to in high school.
I was digging the music but they lost me with the lyric “my flesh it doth rot” on Buried Alive. Suddenly it felt a bit silly. Music rocked though, and I’m sure at the time it was great music to freak out your parents.
Really good guitar and drums. Sounded sort of like Black Sabbath. The satan gimmick got stale quickly.
I like Heavy Metal and strangely enough Venom is influenced by them. It's ok, I guess. Maybe I'm just not in the mood but I don't feel this adds much to the Genre.
I guess this album is unironic, but I might be wrong. It's like a basic ur-text for other metal. Love the spelling out of sacrifice which I can only assume inspired Fergie. Maybe it's hilarious? Like, the song titles came first? There's no denying the musicianship, even if I never quite got metal--my older brother tried, but I just don't care, this album almost makes me care.
Pretty good. Sounds similar to other metal bands of the era. No fucking around with slow melodies and self-absorbed messaging made popular by black metal. These guys cook along at a brisk, head-banging pace, throwing snarls and solid guitar rips along the way. Good old rock n roll!
The sound gets old. Not the power.
Hilarious. To Hell and Back is my new work commute jam.
Kuuntelukokemus kärsi (Spotifyn) huonosta äänenlaadusta / hiljaisesta miksauksesta, meni puuroksi. Toisaalta se lisäs charmia, koska sen takia ensivaikutelma AC/DC:mäisyydestä hävisi. Raise the Dead = hymyilyttävän hyvä. Mutta ongelmaksi muodostui lopulta monipuolisuuden puute.
So far this album would win my "most improved" award (even though it's really me who improved.) I found my first listen fairly laborious and counting down the tracks, even though I was latching on to some of the self-parody, guitar work and drum work. My second listen I was really able to key into some of the more melodic elements and I didn't even realize I had made it into the bonus tracks. I think it's really cool that they ended this album with essentially a stinger preview of their next album. TAKE THAT MCU.
This stuff was funny
The mixing is pretty good. I wish it sounded fuller. I wish there was more bass. There are some cool moments on this. I get it's significance, but it would be a stronger album if it shaved off a couple tracks.
Listening to this album made me look back at the release dates of Metallica's early albums. There is a similar sound there for metal in the 80's I guess. This had notes of Kill Em All and Ride the Lightning. But also an inversion because all of the songs are like 3 minutes long (referenced in the wiki too). America had to go bigger with the 6-9 minute Metallica ballads. Overall this was enjoyable, started to sound the same towards the end but I wonder if this inspired any future metal groups.
Love a good departure like this, and this time we're going to hell. It's evil rock, baby. The album is titled "black metal," so it's easy to see how it inspired a subgenre of the same name. Look, I may not be a metalhead, but I can appreciate some evil riffs and gutteral singing, and there are a couple tracks on here that I did really dig. It's not something I would seek out, but I can't give it lower than 3 stars because it does what it does well. Favorite tracks: Black Metal, Heaven's On Fire. Album art: Looks forbidden. We've got what's certainly the devil stenciled in the middle of a black background, a classic goat-like image. He's got a little smirk, like he knows this music is about to take the metal world by storm. Very strong, fitting cover. 3/5
I liked this well enough. Classic 80s metal.
Good to finally hear Venom, a prelude to the Trash Metal scene, and I like to hear the transition they represent, although the songs don’t really stand out one from each other.
Rätt bra!
This album is a strange one. And I’m having a bit of difficulty trying to express how I feel about it. This released during a very transitional period for metal music, and this album kind of represents that period as a whole. Its title inspired the namesake of an entire genre, and also supposedly inspired that same genre. And I’m not sure what to think. This is divided into two parts; Side Black and Side Metal. And so I expected a sonic difference with the songs on each sound. But there is very little difference as far as I can tell. I’m somewhat at a loss for where the “black metal influence” comes from other than the name. The characteristics of the black metal I’m familiar with aren’t present here. Much like the transitional period this was released in, the music itself feels very in between two worlds. The vocals are heavy, but not that low grisly growl that would become synonymous with hardcore metal. The riffs and drumming are fast, although the latter feels a little amateurish at some points. My biggest complaint is how lo-fi the album is. It’s mixed pretty poorly, and the guitars get kind of squandered by the drums and vocals. This was released even before Kill 'Em All, which whether you like Metallica or not, was a big album for thrash metal. In a way, I predicted what my thoughts on this would be just based on the year of release. Much like Vincebus Eruptum before it, which laid some of the groundwork for metal music as an entity, it’s very primitive and lacks the creativity and aesthetics that would cause metal to become a global phenomenon. Metal hadn’t exactly reached its genesis with this album. Rating: 5/10
It deserves its spot on the list. For me, this is not in discussion. However, it's very far from a good album. The production quality is not so good, the lyrics are much less "dangerous" these days (although I'm sure it was crazy to release it around the 80s), and the modern extreme metal is much better than this one. I would like to see more examples of extreme metal on the list.
Not bad actually.
This was enjoyable.
Heavy
1. 3/5 2. 3/5 3. 3/5 4. 3/5 5. 3/5 6. 3/5 7. 3/5 8. 3/5 9. 3/5 10. 3/5 11. 3/5
Corny teens make fun thrash metal
it's alright
Disco icónico que sólo ubicaba de nombre. Me encuentro escuchando ciertos días Metallica y Slayer, así que en este trabajo viene a agrandar el panorama. Thrashero, previo a la existencia del género, lo siento ideal para entrenar.
The witches brew a pot of hate With lizard, bat and man With a smile they laugh their spells And stir with wretched hand Calling demons Baphomet and Mephistopheles The tattered figures cackle As their mortal victims bleed Don't burn the witch The ways of Hell aren't wrong Don't burn the witch Let them brew their song I'm generally in favor of anything that would upset tipper gore. This is an OK album, but it does get kind of background noisy after a few tracks. 3/5
Highly influential, it's a good borderline between the heavy metal of NWOBHM and thrash, with primitive aspects of what would become black metal. What sets it apart is its low register guitar, punchy drums, and lo-fi quality (with barely audible trippy effects), giving it a very gritty, unsettling, and mysterious sound. In the slow and atmospheric moments, when combined with the evil lyrics and growled vocals, you can hear how much of it forms the basis of black metal. Most songs have the energy, vocals, and riff style of Motorhead, but with a fast tempo and aggressive playing, it mostly shows signs of thrash metal, particularly Slayer, but also Anthrax in the anthemic songs like "Teacher's Pet." Onto the downsides. 1) I get that it's very early black metal, but the lyrics are primitive and boring with basic themes like "hail satan" and "damn that teacher's hot." I did really like the imagery in "Buried Alive" though. 2) I think the quality does work against their favor, feeling like it's best enjoyed from shitty speakers in some creepy basement. On the plus side, it does reinforce the creepy vibe. 3) Many songs feel gimmicky, like they're having fun with whatever ideas come to their mind. I did have a bit of a fun too, it makes it a bit more accessible too to people not used to more extreme forms of metal. But the novelty runs out quickly with successive listens, where I'm waiting to get past most of it just to get to highlights like a sick riff. 4) The gimmicks make it incoherent, leaving me conflicted between tracks. 5) The middle 4 songs were really weak and (besides "Teacher's Pet") forgettable. "Heaven's On Fire" was good but drawn out, and the vocals clash. 6) Lmao at the sneak preview into their next album. It's stupid but I appreciate the effort. Maybe just stop at the end of "Don't Burnt the Witch." The first 3 and last 2 are really strong compositions for different reasons, some for their trash elements, and others for their black elements. The lyric, gimmick, consistency, and production qualities I outlined above still hinder them, but at least it feels part of the experience, which I can't discredit too much.
Favorite Songs: Black Metal Countess Bathory Solid old school metal album and thus quite enjoyable.
I actually didn't think it was all that bad. Like it's the kind of music you'd listen to while jumping out of the back of a plane without a parachute on but overall was fine - and this is coming from someone not really a fan of this genre. 6/10.
grimy noisy maximalist metal beats for your local dive-y craft beer bar.
Not my cup of tea, but great energy.
This was silly, but I kinda like it?? There are some catchy parts
Listened to this while I worked out, which is probably the best way for me to listen to it. The lofi-ness made it kind of wash over me though.
Not too bad. Kind of corny.
This album was one that I was not at all interested in listening to. As I was listening, I found it confusing that I could make out the lyrics. Also, the music wasn’t too terribly painful to my ears. Still not interesting for me, but it could have been much worse.
Well this turned out to be just fine for Halloween. But I find that this kind of goofiness wears thin quite quickly. At least I got the sense that they don't take themselves too seriously. Very silly.
No thanks
In case you hadn't heard, it's blaccckkkkkk metaaaalllllllllll!!!! \m/ \m/
Venom Genre: Heavy Metal, Speed Metal, Thrash Metal, Black Metal 1982 Holy crap, THIS is from 1982? Never herd of these guys...it definitely seems way ahead of its time. Is it good? Well, it is no Metallica. But, maybe this was an influence, and that makes it significant.... Buried Alive is probably the best song on the album. Standouts: None. Others: Buried Alive, Black Metal, To Hell and Back, It's a bit to hard and heavy for my taste today, but not bad. 3/5
Disco is dead, new wave has yet to arrive and hair metal is still in its infancy. Venom put out this album which is the template for Speed and thrash metal. Fast guitar picking, super bright cymbals, phase on the guitar distortion and a bit of growl to the vocals.
Ok, I get that it's on brand, but that opener is rough yall. Ok, I need to remember that this is 80s Metal, but these Lyrics are cracking me up. Oh. That guitar solo though. Yum. The cheese. Revoking his spoken word license. Could I have an Album of just the Solos? Good album ruined by childish vocals. Shock only works until is wears off, then it's just giggle inducing. Some decent bones here though. Countess Bathory strong best. Should give their later stuff a listen.
It does exactly what it says on the cover! Enjoyable, but more a diversion than the big event.
Started strong. Wore on me towards the end.
3.5
It has that mix of 80s rock/metal and punk. If you remember this album you definitely still have an old leather jacket hanging in your closet. Not the best, but not the worst.
Man the lyrics on this are corny. Like we get it, you worship Satan. The 15 year olds must’ve went crazy for this one. However, after reading up a bit on this record, I found it was pretty influential to a lot of thrash bands that would come later. These guys were like the first to go real heavy. Pretty cool.
Hearing Grace by Jeff Buckley the day before this is pretty funny to me. "Hallelujah" vs "chaos in hell" Like some other metal albums I've listened to, becomes samey after a certain point but there's a level of camp and theatricality that I can enjoy. Other commenters are accurate, Tenacious D sounds like they owe a lot from records like this HL: title track, "Raise the Dead", "Sacrifice", "Countess Bathory" less enthusiastic about: "Teacher's Pet" 6.66/10 (well more like a 5.9 but I needed to make the joke) August 23, 2023
Though it sounds a bit like a low fidelity cassette tape, this was a lot more approachable than i expected. Pretty straight forward hard rock with a more metal slanting lead singer delivery. Countess Bathory and Black Metal stood out for me.
3/5 I’m not a metal fan but I found this entertaining - Even the clownish lyrics!
Fast and hard
I want to like metal, but its all a bit cringe isn't it. It was fine.
Heavy shit, dudes shredded
Influential and a decent listen, but doesn't hold up so well in terms of lyrics, technical ability, and polish unlike some of the bands that were directly influenced by this in the 80s
Classic album. Beautiful solos.
On the first listen I wasn't really sure about this but this album really does grow on you and I was having a lot of fun right about the time I heard Buried Alive for the second time. As the album progressed I was thinking this was a 4 for sure but I realised this version has 10 extra songs and I think this album would be perfect if it ended with Don't Burn The Witch. By the end of Acid Queen - 12" Version I was starting to get a bit over these goes so 3 it is. Favourite tracks Buried Alive, Leave Me In Hell.
C'était bon, mais c'est drôle comment cet album était considéré choquant à l'époque, aujourd'hui c'est plutôt tranquille. Par contre on sent les influences qui ont mené à l'avènement du death metal et du black metal. J'ai pas trouvé que c'était un album parfait, mais c'est en effet un album à écouter avant de mourir. 7/10
Similar to other metal albums for me, but not bad. Top tracks: Countess Bathory, Buried Alive, Sacrifice
I can see where a lot of metal came from this, but by itself it was just ok. I started losing attention during the second half of the album, the lyrics and music were kinda repetitive and the former were dumb (only sometimes in a fun way). Still, parts of tracks 4 and 5 were pretty good. I'd give this a 2.5.
Not bad, not great. Entertaining enough for a listen imo, but not something I feel like I need to come back to.
Big, dumb, trailblazing metal for those looking to spice up their next séance, summoning, and/or Satanic slumber party.
not as bad as I was expecting, but still not really for me - 5/10
Driving rhythm and bass, great riffs, but a little too screamy to vote any higher for me
It's interesting to see the kind of through-line from British Blues-covering to Zeppelin-esque original "Heavy Metal" to the roots of what is now thought of as heavy metal in all its labeled permutations. Not that big of a fan of the sound though, and while I'm not bothered by the occult or Satanist content, it's a pretty shallow iconography that holds little interest for me.
🤘
"If the urukai from LOTR had a band, is this what would sound like?"
Pretty cool
Pretty goofy, not nearly as bad as I would’ve expected from the global reviews. We’ve certainly had worse (longer) metal albums. I think the thing that hurts this album the most is its extremely shitty production - the Satan stuff is a decent conceit, if a bit overstated. 5/10
Loud, it's okay, much better metal out there, but gather theses guys were pioneering, still rate on how it sounds
I can see how much influence they had on an entire genre of music. The music itself was interesting.
This was OK. Massively let down by the sound quality I think...
This is another one that was such a big deal at the time but so much came after it that it now seems quaint by comparison.
Not bad but I do think its hyped up too much
This is a solid metal album. I've never been super into metal but can definitely appreciate it. You can still hear the influence this band/album have on metal bands today. I don't see myself coming back to this one a lot in the future but actually enjoyed listening to it today. Standout Tracks: Black Metal, Raise the Dead, Leave Me In Hell
Being the first certainly doesn't mean it's also the best
Pax vobiscum.
Fun, goofy devil worship music. It's so funny to me (it really shouldn't be, a lot of people's lives were ruined) that Venom and other's were taken so seriously that it sparked a nationwide panic - but that's America for you
It's much more listenable than I expected. Instead of ridiculously lo-fi speedy riffs and intelligible high pitched vocals, I got some proto-trash riffs with an ok vocals (by extreme metal standards). I realized it's all about the lyrics, which of course explores satanic themes. Overall, surprisingly decent for such an anti-commercial album.
This album didn’t speak to me personally but it does have merit as a jumping off point for many later bands.
every time i listen to metal i wish i could appreciate it more, but i’m just not able to.
Better than expected..
I don't know a lot about metal, but I'll try my best. First of all, this sounds kind of lo-fi. Also, everything feels very compressed. The vocalist reminds me of megadeath or metallica. The guitar seems more classic rock oriented, but it's definitely similar to those aforementioned bands, too. I guess this album isn't considered black metal. I wonder if this album had any influence on the genre that would emerge some 10-odd years later? Maybe just the lo-fi part. I'm not sure how I feel about this. It's pretty cool but also very muddy and I think there are other better introductions to the genre(s) of heavy metal
Not unlistenable to, but really not my thing. The kind of album that everyone who then made millions listened to (Metallica, Slayer etc) as it's the mid-point between NWOBHM and thrash. The band meanwhile sold about 30 copies no doubt, so kind of the heavy metal Velvet Underground.
Venom's a competent band—Dunn in particular does some solid shredding—but the Satanic schtick wears thin pretty quickly. Maybe it was edgy at the time, but it feels corny to my 2023 ears. What struck me most about this album was the track "Teacher's Pet." The beginning of the song felt so similar to Van Halen's "Hot for Teacher" that I have to wonder if VH was inspired by it. But then a couple of minutes in it takes a hard left turn and gets surprisingly bluesy, which I don't recall any of the other tracks doing. This might be an album I have to give another listen. They've got sort of a Satanic Motorhead vibe, and I suspect that if I can get past the hokey Christian-bating I might just enjoy it more.
Everything I expected from a band and album named thus. I expect the lyrics are hilarious if I could pick them out. Not unenjoyable silly thrash thrash.
Silly and fun
Two noisy albums in a row. I sometimes wonder if these albums are picked without a real listen and like ...
Ridiculous but fun, like Metalocalypse.
Everything Metallica would like to be.
algumas lembra bastante metallica, thrashzao e tal mas nao muitas bem agradáveis
Interesting as an artifact. Didn’t find it great to listen to.
heavy but good
I guess I'm not kvlt, because this attempt at Satanism-over-thrash is fully hilarious. From the ridiculous lyrics covering life, death, and crushing on teacher to the teaser for an album which could just as easily tease Black Metal if it were at the front, it's pure glorious schlock. I will admit that the complaints about "real black metal" don't make the music any better than serviceable. (Oh, and I like Liturgy, too.)
Not bad but drums are mostly boring. Recording seems like it could use a clean up.
It's fine. More metal then I usually go
It was... okay I guess. Okay metal with meh lyrics. Probably wouldn't listen again. Giving it a 2 felt cruel because I can see how this probably impacted other music I like. I wouldn't seek it out again. A soft 3
I like metal, but I am no fan of Satan. The music was very good. Lyrics were pandering to a certain crowd.
A black metal album with a cross-eyed goat-faced man on the cover. Can anything live up to it? Yeah, kinda. I mean - this is some black ass metal. Short tight songs, leaning toward the transgressive. Silly because it's definitely for teenaged boys, but still fun. It's not Regurgitated Guts, but it'll do til some gets here.
Honestly, I realise the historic significance behind this album, but bugger me it's a rough old ride - and that's coming from a metal fan. Borderline incompetent and inadvertently funny. Still, it has heart and I've a soft spot for bands that rise beyond their own limitations. I think 'Black Metal' does this - just about.
Really default metal
There’s no way three guys in Newcastle Upon Tyne could have predict the mayhem (pun intended) this would cause in Norway half a decade later. “Buried Alive” and “Raise the Dead” are absolute highlights on the first side while the harrowing tale of “Countess Bathory” dominates the second half. The artwork and lyrics are almost comically extreme and the production on especially the drums leave some to be desired.. But this is just, almost surprisingly the cover taken into consideration, an extremely fun record! For the sake of my sanity I try to ignore the fact that the album closes on a teaser of the first song of Venom’s next album… Because… Who in hell would actually do such a thing? Nobody, right? Nobody.
This is hard to listen to. 3 I mean it's real black metal, it's okay
Fun album. Praise be to the Dark Lord.
Loud, intense, solid album.
Surprised this is from so early in the 80s. I didn’t mind it, and seems to back all movement toward more modern sounds including Metallica
i always wondered what metal would sound like without the theatrical drama school singing, the squealing guitars and the voice where you pretend you're a demon. this is what it sounds like. fairly palatable, i like the sound but the tracks aren't very interesting. shame really.
These dirty little shit eaters make a real mean record, mummy. They eat more shit than anyone ive ever known. They eat so much shit and that causes them to shit more and therefore eat more. It's just a conveyor belt of eating shit. Eat shit.
Black Metal Matters
Once I stopped taking it seriously I enjoyed it.
This album feels just as much like punk as it does like metal. There is some metal I really love (e.g. Opeth) This album I thought was just fine but I don't desire to hear it again. Not a particularly bad album. I can understand why some would think the lyrics are dumb, but for me lyrics usually only play a small role in the quality of music. Favorite track: Countess Bathory
A bit less my speed at this point in my life but definitely something I would've adored in high school. Also good music to be productive to
Very appropriate name for this album. I don't really find myself wanting to listen to black/thrash metal very often but listening through, I did find myself headbanging along. Didn't add any songs to my Spotify but I'll make sure to discuss this album with metalhead friends!
I could get into this, but this just isn't my thing.
This sounded far fresher than expected.
meh
Cool exposure for my mental timeline for the genre, but nothing spectacular.
Did not expect to enjoy this one, was again surprised. Don't think they'll be a regular play for me, but I have new respect for Venom.
Definitely not “black metal” so I’m guessing this is the first known use of the term? More like proto thrash hard rock. Meh.
Più che black metal a me sembra thrash metal, che buuu super noioso.
OK, I was not expecting to enjoy this as much as I did. Metal not really my genre but this galloped along and was a fun listen. Stupid for sure, but I digged the Satan stuff. Apparently this record was influential - it sounds like a parody of metal to me but I was down with it.
Just not as good as the other metal I have listened to. Not a painful listen but just not that fun either.
Vermakelijk, ik ben ooit vrijwel meteen weggelopen op Dynamo Open Air toen ze begonnen te spelen maar dat was vast vanwege de aankondiging: "And I bring you from the very depts of Hell... VENOMMM". Wel leuk dat het best rommelige metal is met wat hardcore/punk invloeden en een aardig hooligan-gehalte
15-year-old me would have *loved* these guys. As it is, I can totally hear the sound that influenced Metallica, Megadeth, and so many more.
6/10
I can understand why this is influential, but I think I'm all set
Solid metal music
Rockin
Metal sucks, Venom rocks, simple as
Sångaren är ganska störande och hans bars suger och är ointressanta... gillar hur smutsig musiken känns dock.
Odd transitions, and regurgitated lyrics but as an early metal album it sets the stage
Lyrics leave a lot to be desired but honestly not as bad as I thought it would be
I didn't realise the genre was named after an album, that's pretty cool. Probably influential, but if I want to listen to some thrash/black metal there are plenty of other things I'd go to first
Decent but not great
nah it was fineee
This is really early black metal, but to a point it sounds a little bit corny. I'm not sure if that was the intent, or that they're the inspiration for that sound. Guitars can be pretty dark and the drums get plenty heavy for an enjoyable black metal experience, but it's also not my favorite/most versed in genre. Highlights: 3, 7, and 10.
Klinkt allemaal wat hetzelfde
Mad to me that this was known as black metal back in the day, just sounds like skate thrash to me, similar to some hardcore I grew up listening to. I always thought black metal would be more twiddly guitar shit. Seems influential, sounds nostalgic. 3/5
Good early thrash. The influence on Metallica, Anthrax, Slayer and other 80s thrash pioneers is present.
The sound this band has is great, albeit a little repetitive. I like the song titles.
I can't tell if these guys are a complete farce or taking themselves way too seriously. Either way, I must admit it is entertaining.
Thrashy in the best way, great vocals, but not big on all the satanic stuff.
Can definitely see the influences they had on trash and black metal
Some decent metal in here somewhere, but it was totally drowned out by the almost parody-like lyrics (SATAN!) and terrible sound recording quality.
What became synonymous with the Black Metal genre, this album shows the transition point from Hard Rock and Metal to a darker side.
Alright music, I think vocals were the weakest part. Gotta give it credit though, there's an entire genre of music named after this album.
Gar nicht meine Musik, aber besser, als erwartet und musikalisch gar nicht so schlecht.
Don't have a lot to say about this other than Hail Satan.
Sounds like part of the NWOBHM, just not quite a polished. They sound like they're having a great time, and occasionally on this album I do too. BH: Black Metal, Teacher's Pet, Leave Me In Hell
Can see why it's influential. Not especially the type of metal I like to listen to but would probably give it another go.
Was good to hear the early inception of thrash metal.
This is more METAL than I expected. I can see why it's an important album. It's not the style of metal I like, but I can hear it in modern music. I love how over the top it is. Teachers pet is hilarious. If heard this in high school I think I would have loved it.
Great.
all things satan
Solid metal. Title track is really good. 6/10
Another perfect album for Fat Riff Friday. The blues bridge on Teachers Pet was sick but Sacrifice is my highlight. Also Heavens on Fire sounds suspiciously similar to Ace of Spades
Didn’t really sound like “black metal” and I think that’s a good thing
Incidentally I was just listening to a conversation on the value of inspirational media when the iterations of that inspiration that have come since are superior products. This conversation was in relation to the 2011 movie John Carter and how the 100 year old property was a major influence on the titans of science fiction and science fantasy that are far more familiar. While the original was innovative and inspirational its been surpassed by what it inspired. I feel the same way about this album which is the same age as me. At the time it was innovative and went on to inspire iterations that I find to be far superior. Is it worth listening to the originator? I suppose in a forensic dissection of the history of the genre, but am I excited to excavate those early unrefined works, not exactly. Was fine for the history lesson, but not something I'll revisit ever again.
These guys were apparently a formative influence on a lot of speed/thrash metal bands, which is not a genre I particularly care for. Unlike some of the other thrash bands I've listened to, they actually keep consistent tempos and stay in sync. The lyrics are still generic pseudo-Satanic gibberish growled in a variety of tempos, and the music still doesn't do much for me, but it's better than many other examples of the genre I've listened to.
Interesting, with some truly moving moments along the way. If you're into labels, great—it's the beginning of a genre. But if you're more interested in the music, it's just a well-intentioned, generic heavy metal whatever 80's album.
Not for me.
Are they for real or just taking the piss out of us?
Crazy to think that this was the beginning and influence which created mayhem 8 years later. Influential for sure, but unless from 3-4 tracks that were good... the rest was not received as great.
Can we listen to Tenacious D? We have Tenacious D at home.
This genre just doesn’t do it for me
It kinda grew on me a bit by the end, but there’s no getting over the fact the vocals are dreadful and spoil it. Missing link type album fair enough, but I’d much rather listen to what it spawned.
I understand the significance of this record and why it's on here, but this just isn't for me.
Antes de mencionar qualquer aspecto subjetivo dessa gravação, preciso apontar o quão estéril é sua masterização, tudo tem um som plástico e plano, nada se destaca, é uma escuta totalmente banguela. A guitarra, que obviamente é o foco principal do álbum, fica escondida no fundo dos vocais anêmicos e de uma percussão monótona. Falta muita qualidade nessa gravação, muita mesmo. E aí entro na subjetividade do som e dos temas abordados, dos quais eu acho inteiramente toscos. Tudo soa como revolta pré adolescente, e um chamado incessante por atenção. Crianças do subúrbio, toquem isso pra irritar seus pais! Dito isso, há momentos ilustres, como o solo em Buried Alive, mas são poucos e curtos. Disco ruim. 2/5
The music is probably OK but the whole Satanic posing and faux fierce vocalist lost me almost immediately. I added the title track to my playlist.
obviously hugely influential to so much music i love but unfortunately just sounds bad and is stupid
really didn’t do much for me, not sure why. I think there are just too many other metal bands that would go on to do this sound much better. 2/5
It's speedy
Not a fan
Eh. Not too bad but I was not massively impressed by it either.
They can certainly play their instruments but it's all a bit too raw for me.
Too much. Too hard for my tastes.
Eh, not for me. 3.1/10
This is not for me. Not particularly interesting or original sounding.
In terms of actual sound, I kinda like this music; it's energetic and raw, the drums/guitar have some decent moments and get your head/feet moving... I think I have a hard time with the lyrics for the same reason that I have a hard time with growling in death metal. It's just this performative-edginess that comes across to me as really cringe. Doesn't help that I think the vocals are just the worst part anyway. Of its time, I guess, and maybe influenced some better stuff to come, but I'm definitely not a fan of Venom.
Eh, Metal isn't really my thing 2/5
This is absolutely an album that needs to be on the list because of its influence but even in the mid 80s when I was an edgy high school kid the lyrics always seemed to border on parody
15 minutes into this album it already started feeling tedious, which did not bode well for the following half hour. 80s metal struggled with recording quality, and Venom decided "you know what's better than generally poor recording? What if we just hung a single mic from a warehouse ceiling and played on the ground floor" and I mean here we go with the results. It's tedious to listen to, the bass is generally thin and muddy at the same time, and the vocals are shouted to the point of being out of breath every few words. It generally sounds more like punk than metal, which I'm not really opposed to punk, but there isn't a whole lot of musicality to what is put forth here. As another mark against it, it definitely feels very "I'm a teenage edgelord" with seemingly constant satanic references. I know the landscape was different in the early 80s but today it's more tired than shocking. Overall I recognize this is influential (to a genre I find no real positives in, but still) and I'm sure a lot of kids latched onto it back then, but it has aged very poorly and I don't find any value listening to it today, much less it being one of the albums I "have" to listen to before I die. I would have been perfectly fine without.
Super on the nose, an obvious product of its time. Favorite part of the album is the sound. Really dirty and garagey. Sets a tone that fits well with what they're out to accomplish. Some ripping guitar. I'm just not horny enough for Satan.
#13 Prototypical thrash metal, with edgy lyrics about satan and death. It's just not my thing.
Fair play, I suppose on pushing the boundaries and creating a new sub-genre, though ultimately speed metal is one I can broadly live without
Very dull. The puking-sounding vocals get old immediately. I can't believe how long this album is relative to how uninspiring it is
An extra star for being influencial, but still i couldnt listen to this.
Dit heb ik altijd met Venom. Het mist gewoon muzikaliteit en vooral (muzikale) creativiteit. Echt niet te vergelijken met de rest van NWOBHM. Kortom, gebrek aan joie de vivre. Dit album is daar een pracht voorbeeld van, whack. Desondanks, wel echt veel invloed gehad op hardere metal stromingen dus dat moet ik ze meegeven. Bursting out 12” is goed.
Hate it. Parts of the music is ok, but the overall sound is horrible.
Puuh. Managed it through. Lot of what is expected by the album name. Also good that the singer needs to reassure us that it is "BLACK METAAAALLL"...
I don’t particularly like the guitars in metal songs. And when combined with lyrics I didn’t find particularly good, this is something I could do completely wirhout
I was tempted to give it 1 star just because of the genre but there was some actual good guitar work in there - now the singer and lyrics definitely deserve a 1 star!
I think I understand the significance of the album, but it doesn't make it any more enjoyable along the way. The lyrics are just on this side of parody.
This was quite nice. Enjoy some short 80s metal. One of the songs had that tits out football chant in it too.
Metallica meats Motorhead. Every song sounds the same. 3/10
Unsurprisingly, black metal
I am struggling to decide between 1 and 2 stars. Like, it's a 1 for me, but I can also appreciate their contribution to the genre. Or something.
Despite the title implying this to be a Black Metal project, Venom's 1982 release was in fact not that self proclaimed genre, but is instead considered Speed Metal and New Wave of British Heavy Metal. Venom's sophomore album is not nearly as egregious as I thought it would be as there were a few songs here I could get down with to a certain degree, but as an album the mixing and somewhat messy and inconsistent quality did unfortunately keep me from liking this project as a whole. You really have to pick your poison with this album in terms of what you are going to put up with and what can you move on from without too big of a deal. As with a lot of early Metal projects they can be very inconsistent because no one had a clear idea of what the genre could and should be until the mid to late 80s. I appreciate this being yet another early piece for the genre, but unfortunately it just isn't good enough for me to want to come back to ever.
Historisch hat das sicherlich seinen Wert, aber mehr für mich dann auch nicht.
1.6 This is what I think of when I hear “heavy metal.” This is crazy, death metal, just kinda yell-y over heavy bass. It’s interesting that people like it, and I guess I kind of don’t hate it? But I don’t enjoy it. I can respect that it commits to the satan worshiping craziness though
Well I can appreciate the technical accomplishment of the album and within its you know chronologically context release how it was embraced by the metal crowd, just really didn't do anything for me.
Huge impact in the death metal culture but not a death metal fan.
Pretty good proof that being "influential" isn't necessarily a good thing. Heavy enough to be in my sonic wheelhouse to some extent but deeply boring.
I appreciate the allusions to a distant past, reviving insane themes and stories. It's horror via the audio format. And I don't like horror so, not my cup of tea.
This certainly is an acquired taste that I don't share. I wouldn't say it's bad there's just nothing for me here. A lot of the songs kinda blend together, the lyrics not particularly deep. Feels like the parody metal music from Alan Wake. Expecting it to maybe have the lowest average score on here.
feels like if someone did a metal album as a joke
I’m done
I liked the theatrical quality of some songs but this genre is not for me.
I enjoyed the punk-y feel to this. Not terrible, but won't sit through the whole thing.
Well ok, list! This album is an interesting pick for inclusion. While it is influential, it's also known for sounding nothing like the subgenre of metal that shares its name. The book describes it as the "perfect parody", at least according to the album's Wikipedia article. As for the actual album, it's alright. The lyrics are dumb as hell(hence the parody bit), and the vocalist is the worst metal vocalist I've ever heard, but the majority of the album is fairly competent metal. It's not great, especially considering that the vastly superior Number of the Beast and Screaming for Vengeance(criminally not on the list) came out the same year. Being a metalhead, I want to like it, but I know that it's repetitive crap at the same time. Hell, even the riffs(the best part of any worthwhile metal song) are somehow more samey and repetitive than Motorhead, who are literally known for being repetitive. True Norwegian black metal is pretty much unlistenable, so this is at least a little better. Granted, it's offensively juvenile(Seriously, what the actual FUCK is Teacher's Pet?) and mostly terrible, but at least it's influential in some capacity.
This album is not really something that I would enjoy listening to nowadays, although I had a phase in school when I listened to music like that, but I mainly enjoyed the more melodic songs. In this album, there are a couple of songs that don't sound too bad, but it's just overall too intense to simply sit down and enjoy.
. A lot of screaming from the bowels of hell
Pretty decent speed/thrash. I prefer early Metallica to this. 2.5/5.
It sounds like someone just released a boat load of religious frustration.
прослухала десь половину
Almost sounds like they’re trying too hard to soundike Metallica? Lyrics are more hell-related and not as deep.
We're buried alive, we're raising the dead, we're going to hell and back - crap then, crap now.
Not for me there's been way better metal on this list
meh
these guys genuinely had nothing better to do than yell into a microphone for an hour
Was this one long awful song? My music has gotta have some melody. Sorry, fellas. Not for me.
4/10
Given this was 1983, I can hear echoes of its influences in industrial, grunge and various forms of metal from the late 80s and beyond. Still not my thing though.
I will preface by saying the I am not a big metal fan. The most I’ve done is accidentally go to a maiden concert but it was peak so… The volume for guitar and anything that’s not vocals sounds really muted like they’re playing through a wall. The guitar is actually pretty fun at times and sounds mean if not so muted. The lyrics are pretty boring I will say and usually just devolve into screaming the title or something which isn’t always a bad thing but a lot of the songs having this is boring. Opening to teachers pet actually pretty funny but most of these songs are just IM FROM HELLLLL!!! BURY ME IN CHAINS!!!!
I understand that it is influential and may have paved the way for what I think are just better thrash metal bands and albums, but I think it’s just a little boring and rough around the edges.
I like many genres of rock and metal but not so much any of this album. Some ok mosh type music but nothing I’ll remember in 20 minutes.
Initial reaction - this kinda rules 4 songs later - this is lame Next song - wait, is this cool? Very next song - no, this is not cool
I appreciate the energy and how wild this must have sounded in 1982 but I didn't really care for it even if it did inspire music I love.
⭐️⭐️ No strong feelings. I'm sure this was a big deal when it came out, i just can't take it seriously. Bigger fans of metal would probably appreciate this album more than i did
Feels like one of those innovative kind of records that, while probably blowing minds at the time, does not hold up to current standards of today (at least for metal and for me). This is coming from someone who doesn't have the greatest knowledge/taste though i do love some classic metal bands/current ones.
The music isn't that awful, but the bullshit shock rock satanism is just stupid. Takes me back to middle school with the wanna be headbangers walking around acting hard by drawing penatgrams on their books.
1.75 - I like some metal, just not this metal.
🎧TO HELL!! AND BACK!! 😈🤘🏻🎸
Not my thing, but definitely enjoyable enough. Is this where black metal gets its name?
sad cringe
The frenetic thrash metal drumming is nice but lyrics are giving cringy edgy 15 year old misunderstood kid vibes. Didn’t really enjoy. But giving an extra star for their influence in more aggressive forms of metal.
This isn’t the worst thing I’ve ever heard and I typically hate black metal.
Oh a metal album! A great chance to complain that this genre is massively underrepresented in this list. Really a crime. Very poor representation of classic heavy metal, and no representation of the wide bodies of work included in doom, black and death metal (and no, despite the name, this is not a black metal album). This album is more myth than substance. It’s often hailed as the first black metal album, but the music is proto thrash. Better bands to see as the origins of black metal would be Hellhammer, Celtic Frost, Bathory or Rotting Christ, with the genre really coming into its own with the Norwegian scene of Mayhem, Darkthrone, Emperor, Burzum and the like (and albums like De Mysteriis Dom Satanas, Transylvanian Hunger and In The Nightside Eclipse do merit a listen, no I won’t include Burzum here for obvious reasons). Others say it’s the lyrical themes the album introduced but really many metal bands had the idea to sing about satan and scary stuff, I mean even Black Sabbath started with the concept of singing about scary stuff. So I guess the real historical unique contribution of this album is its name. I do have to concede that the actual music scene does recognize this as a very influential album, with tributes from Mayhem to Metallica. I just find it pretty boring and monotonous. Trying to listen to this album with a mindset of somebody who never listened to Emperor or Megadeth or anything like that I guess I can see how it felt new and exciting, but to a modern listener there’s much better stuff to listen to, so I’m willing to go as high as two stars but no higher. So lay down your souls for the god’s rock and roll or something.
This style of Heavy Metal all sounds the same to me, regardless of who is singing it. The lead singer is screaming lyrics, usually a loop of the same words, while the band plays their faces off behind him. I respect the musicality of the band but I’m just not a fan of this genre. At least I could understand this lead singer’s words on these tracks versus some of the other heavy metal bands we’ve listened to.
If Jack Black fronted a black metal band, this would be it. Early 80's heavy metal, music was fine. The imagery is what sets this apart, over the top and borderline goofy. At War With Satan was my favorite track, so dumb. Felt like dark evil version of Spinal Tap doing the intro to Stonehenge. I'd be disappointed to learn Venom didn't have a far too small statue of Baphomet lowered onto the stage as they recited that into. Outside of the legit Scandinavian Black Metal bands that are truly terrifying, I'm convinced Black/Satanic metal is all shtick, akin to watching a bad horror movie. Guilty pleasure for some. Not my thing, but a fun listen none the less.
no more metal por favor
It's just solid metal. Nothing to really hook me.
After a few songs, I realized the most metal thing I could do was stop listening.
This is a comedy act, surely? So, all in all, this is a pretty crap album. However, it does deserve a place on this list as it was apparently quite influential. I wonder if the band ever grew up, and if they did, are they embarrassed?
Yeah. Not exactly my cup of tea. Songs blend into each other, lots of incoherent shouting. I'll give it two stars because of energy and relentlessness.
Metal tönt eif alles gliich für mich. Lyrics lowkey corny au
3/10
Not great, not terrible. Poor man's black sabbath. I guess you can see the progression black metal would take.
Idk dude. I thought I'd like this with how much I enjoy other kinds of metal, but I just could not get into this. It's almost not interesting enough to me. Like the vocals are so one note, the instrumentation isn't super variable, or at least not enough to hook me. There are some points in some of the songs where it gets more exciting and I'm like yes, pls more of this, but then it quickly goes back to the same stuff.
A really important album for the metal genre, but not really my thing. A couple of tracks I might listen to again
It’s listenable, but there are so many other heavy metal bands in this style that i would 100% rather listen to. Probably won’t revisit much.
A version of me less tired of all the metal albums may have enjoyed the silly lyrics and crunchy vocals on this much more. I get that this was influential to a bunch of metal subgenres, but I'm really not that interested.
Ok
Driving hard rock / metal is something I generally like, so I should have appreciated this. And to be sure, the playing was good. I just couldn't get past how bad this dude's voice was, along with the lyrics which were not that great. It was a very mediocre album to me.
Don't know how to review this, there's a lot I dislike but also some great songs, and I'm aware how influential it was. Bursting Out was my song of the album and best first listen with Don't Burn The Witch and Buried Alive being other highlights. I like too much of it for it to be 2 stars but I can't rate it any higher
Sounds like Gandalf's gothy younger brother.
Let's go 3/10. I found most of this hilarious, tbh. It's SO not for me. Some of it, though? Not terrible! But, yeah. No.
I can appreciate it being a pioneer of a sub-genre but the lyricism is pretty one-note through the entire album. I’m not a huge metalhead though, just not my cup of tea.
Not my thing
There's a lot of things that I like about this album: the cover art, the influences on speed / thrash metal, and plenty of the fretwork. But at the same time, I found myself sort of bored by the middle of it. The mixing is pretty trash (as seems to be a common theme among early metal albums); it sounds so overly compressed... And ultimately, I found this to be a pretty forgettable experience. Don't get me wrong, I'm grateful for the other music it clearly inspired, but I wasn't very moved by this specifically... High 2 in my book.
It's all the same song. High 2.
Kind of boring
argh. Why should I care if the singer doesn't?
Black Metal... not my genre of choice I must admit. First song sounds shockingly bad sound-wise compared to the rest album - even though all of it sounds quite weak as well. There is no oumph at all, everything just becomes a mid-range mess. If you compare 'Don't Burn The Witch' to 'Black Metal' it's like night and day. Technicalities aside, this type of music is just a bit too fast for me to pick up any type of hooks or rhythms really. It's mostly the singer shouting some occult-like lyrics along with soo much guitar mess and drumming. No real finesse to it in my eyes, and everything just drowns out. The bad sound really doesn't help it either. In the end this wasn't for me, but I can imagine it is for some people.
Accidentally listened to the wrong album first, it didn't make much difference as the second Venom album sounds much like this one. I understand this is a big deal and started Black Metal sub-genre but I couldn’t find it that interesting. I dabble in metal from time to time but it’s not really my main genre of listening. Bad production quality and at times it sounded quite a bit like Judas Priest which made me wonder why this was so groundbreaking. Is it the occult theme? Going to be a 2 star from me.
I find the production undeniably awful, often sounding like it was recorded in a closet, and the lyrics often veer into juvenile, Spinal Tap territory, particularly on tracks like the cringe-inducing "Teacher's Pet". The musicianship is equally sloppy and primitive, yet I can’t help but be charmed by the infectious, punk-infused energy that courses through standout tracks like "Countess Bathory" and the title track. Still debating if this is a "listen to before you die" album though...
was okay not more
If this came out today it would be put in the comedy/parody category
Metal is like Marmite, you either love it or hate it.
Now I know how people in the 80s/90s felt around "metal kids" in high school
It was aight for metal. I’ve listened to better newer and older stuff
This was completely new ro me, and Im really glad I heard it. The lyrics are really funny. Its like they were written by a brooding 15 year old. Everything is EVIL and everything RHYMES. The music rips.
It’s a raw emission from the underworld, chugging toward you like a runaway train. Its mission statement is clear: be loud, be Satanic, be the thing that makes people clutch their pearls. I respect metal music and this album for being committed to the bit… though Teacher’s Pet was an unwelcome addition to the record’s themes. It’s so unabashedly up front about it, that it feels like a parody… and parody doesn’t hold up well to repeated listening. I guess I can see why this makes the list, but once is enough.
Not my thing - feels a little bit embarrassing in terms of the lyrics - satan and devil focused very troubled teens.
182 Tuvo sus momentos, pero cuando llegué al lado B con versiones de 60 minutos y versiones para la radio, fue como meh. Tiene eso más desarmado medio punketa que nunca me ha gustado.
Should it be here? As an example of this music, yes. Do I like I? No, sorry guys. 2 stars
In some ways, Black Metal is one of those albums where having the actual 1001 Albums book on hand would have been helpful – Robert Dimery apparently described Black Metal as the "perfect parody" and its inclusion seems to be due to Venom accidentally kickstarting a much darker wave of Norwegian metal with this album, despite the fact that they weren't actually Satanists themselves. On the other hand, knowing that the whole "Lucifer is my master" shtick was theatrical and not done in earnest doesn't make the music much easier to listen to. I can't stand the raspy, atonal vocals or the one-note lyrics, no matter how much of it is played for irony. The guitar work is solid all around and there were a couple cuts I thought were okay, but there's not much else here I'd willingly subject myself to a second time. I also just want to point out how funny the final track is – it's a preview of the intro of the first track from Venom's next album, which just slowly fades out like two minutes in. I can't imagine buying this LP in 1982, hearing this at the end and having to wait nearly two years to hear the full song (which is almost 20 minutes long). Not sure if it was an intentional joke on Venom's part or not, but it got a chuckle out of me! Highlights: Raise the Dead, Teacher's Pet
It wasn't as bad as I had feared. I couldn't listen to it all the way through because I'm not into that genre. Some of the music reminded me of old gothic bands I used to listen to in my youth. Nowadays, I find it all pretty boring. Still, I listened to more of the album than I thought I would. 2/5
Honestly, when I read the review, I expected way more intensity. The review talks about their satanic subject matter, the reviling music, etc. As a foundational piece to the genre, I understand that the music gets harder with time, at that 1981 death metal vs 2025 death metal is very different. However, my metalhead past was like, "this is death metal? Where is the heat??" Generally, I did not enjoy it much. I felt underwhelmed by its intensity while also feeling annoyed but it's raspy, proto-scream vibes. I'd rather listen to Suicide Silence.
Jesus Christ this album is so English. Imagine if Tenacious D was not in on their own joke, that's this album. I had fun listening to it but it ain't good. I can see the inspiration lyrically on some of later metal, I think In that they sing like they're talking about a weird biblical-themed DND homebrew but seem to be unaware its not as cool as they think it is. It does get a point for making me laugh though.
Bizarre album to listen to on Christmas Eve, didn't exactly put me in a festive spirit...unless I was worshipping Satan? (Cue the church lady). I guess I can appreciate the sincerity by which these guys express their devotion to hell and the devil, etc. And I guess they invented the genre of black metal. But, musically, this is standard issue and no one sold their souls to make a good or even memorable album.
about as generic as you get for metal. Although it kind of pioneers the sound and themes for what was to come later. It strikes me as being very tryhard edgy. Something you would play in a haunted house attraction run by the goth kids or something.
An album designed to scare parents. That’s basically it. It does an admirable job but I have zero interest in albums like this
Some more mellow tracks I enjoyed but the metal sound wasn't for me.
Not a great album. Possibly influential to others that came after, but in hindsight, this one didn’t really hit the mark.